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Kayak sails - Flat Earth, Sea Dog, Falcon, DIY?

JohnAbercrombie

Paddler
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
3,558
Location
Victoria, BC
I'm looking for input on kayak sails - what have you used?

I used the Flat Earth sail in a workshop at PPS with Ginni Callahan a few years ago.
I notice that is also the sail that Justine Curgenven used on her Aleutian trip.

I think that 'Kayakwriter' here uses the Falcon sail.

I've seen videos from NZ/AUS-Tasmania with folks using a variety of sails, including DIY sails stepped through the deck (vs on a hinged step).

I'm 'leaning toward' the Flat Earth sails. The Falcon sail is much more expensive (almost double) and I've been a bit 'put off' by their marketing copy.

But I'm still looking for info, so would value user experiences with sails in BC/PNW wind conditions (when we have wind...which seemed to be a problem when I was in a sailboat... :) )
 
A friend of mine has a Falcon. He brought it out on our trip around Cape Scott. It is new-ish to him, so that may account for some un-ease using it in stiffer winds, but seems like you need consistent light-medium winds(and a rudder boat) to make them worthwhile...honestly i came away not sold on the idea in the context of something i would use in foreseeable future.
 
That pdf is a good sobering read, John. Lots to think about.
 
That pdf is a good sobering read, John. Lots to think about.
Yes, I was impressed by the fact that it's the current producers of the Flat Earth kayak sails that have that article publicly available. (...and wrote the article as well).
I'm always suspicious of companies that take the 'It's easy for anybody!!' approach a.k.a. 'Say anything to make a buck'.

Paddling downwind is always a potentially dangerous situation if in a group, as it's difficult to paddle back to help if somebody capsizes. And the increased speeds of sailing kayaks make that situation even worse, unless you keep line abreast and are aware.
I noticed in a YouTube video of some Tasmanian sail kayakers that they did keep in close proximity, and mostly abreast - so in sight of each other.
 
My wife uses the KayakSailer unit out of Hood River Oregon. And it's excellent with lee boards and a jib. Easy to mount and put up/down,tack with, and beam reach. Expensive but you get what you pay for
 
My wife uses the KayakSailer unit out of Hood River Oregon. And it's excellent with lee boards and a jib. Easy to mount and put up/down,tack with, and beam reach. Expensive but you get what you pay for
Thanks.
Which kayak is her sail mounted on?
Can she paddle with the sail up?
Don't the leeboards get in the way if the kayak is being used in 'non-paddling' mode?

I want something that will add to my speed when I'm paddling, so I'm interested in how easy it is to add (and subtract) sailpower while underway.
 
Well, I ordered a Flat Earth 'Footloose 80' sail and it arrived yesterday.
It looks like a decent quality product.
The 'documentation' (a.k.a. installation instructions) require some diligent internet searching to find, and I still haven't found instructions relevant to the loose-footed 'Footloose' sail.
I had heard 'through the grapevine' that the product support had changed (for the worse) since Mick MacRobb's death.
A couple of people who had dealt with Mick commented on how helpful he was.

Here's an excerpt from an email I got today from Expedition Kayaks, the current owner of the Flat Earth sail business:
Everyone has an opinion on sail fittings and how they’d prefer their sail to be set up, and that is the exact reason we don’t have a precise instruction page, because there are too many variables.

If we provided diagrams we would get customer’s endlessly telling us that their deck doesn’t work for our spec, as Mick did when he very briefly had proscriptive instructions.

We sell about 500 a year, we get maybe ten emails like yours asking for precise guides, and we refer back to the instructions on the site so people can work it out for themselves.

We only ever send that email once, people do work it out, it’s the way Mick preferred it, if you have to solve your own layout problems or variables you’re much more likely to have a good understanding of how the sail works from the ground up. I know it seems odd in a world where people want every single thing laid out for them but strangely it works...
 
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A 'few' boat projects got into the queue ahead of the sail...
:)
I finally got on the water with the FlatEarth sail rig today. Perfect conditions for a first sail: winds only in the 5-10 knot (max) range, mostly onshore! I put the sail setup on my Mariner Max, my most confidence-inspiring boat. :)

It's a lot of fun and definitely increases the speed through the water when paddling. I didn't have the GPS with me, so that's mostly an impression, but when I wasn't paddling the boat kept moving along (at a sedate pace).
Paddling, I could keep up with a low-tech smaller keelboat (main & working jib) on all points of sail - so it will go to windward.
 
John.

I know zip about a sail on a kayak. However, noting that your Mariner has neither rudder nor skeg, is that not an issue for sailing?
Shhh...don't tell......
mini-DSCN3990.JPG


:)
That pic doesn't show the pull-up line which runs above deck to the left side just aft the cockpit, to a vertical Clamcleat.
I added Bigfoot pedals from Australia for controls.
In those low-wind conditions yesterday, the rudder didn't seem to be very necessary but it is certainly handy when tacking and gybing - stomp on the pedal and keep paddling normally; adjust sheet as necessary.
That Tru-Course rudder pulls up and stows on the deck. Aside from adding windage (and being ugly and in the way for carrying etc etc....) it doesn't detract much from the boat performance when it's not being used.
 
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For ideas on the deck rigging for the Flat Earth (and SeaDog) sails, see:

Douglas Wilcox wrote those instructions and his website (seakayakphoto.com) has lots of info.

IMO, the critical thing is to have the sail/mast/boom head within good reach from the cockpit so it can be gathered up and stowed easily. Starting with the 'overlap' at the cockpit then leads to possible locations for the mast base.
 
How do you reach all the way to the stern of the kayak to mount that bracket?

I have a windpaddle sail from a company in Hood River OR. It’s circular with the bottom edge clipping to deck rigging. The videos (a few years ago) seemed misleading as paddlers would show a GPS registering 6 knots. But in the background you’d see someone just paddling and passing the boat with a sail. So that speed might have more to do with current than wind.

I tried it once at a Elk lake but the wind kept changing direction - a lot of laughter from fellow paddlers. Finally for one brief 10 second interval the wind held constant and in the direction I was pointed. I felt the surge and saw the bow wake. So if the conditions are constant, and in the required direction, the sail can help. But if you are paddling with others, it’s probably best to stay with them.
 
How do you reach all the way to the stern of the kayak to mount that bracket?

The Mariner has a pretty solid end fill. After some trials (the end fill was exposed when I cut down the deck at the stern), I ended up just drilling and tapping into the end fill, for 1/4-20 machine screws.

I mentioned the stern modifications in my thread about Mick Allen's syringe 'trick':

I should probably organize the few pics into a separate thread ('Mariner Desecration' ???) :)
 
But if you are paddling with others, it’s probably best to stay with them.
I'm going to try to get some friends to invest in sails - till then it's paddle sailing solo. There's no additional safety in paddling with a partner if you aren't close by, and with a sail and a breeze a paddle sailor and a paddler will soon be separated - by speed of progress and direction.
Even if everybody is using a sail, things can 'go sideways' in a hurry so I am going to be very careful.
See the Rob Mercer article I linked above...
 
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