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I'm asking for help with my "gear" problem

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dgimcmillan

Paddler
Joined
Jun 4, 2006
Messages
64
Location
Abbotsford, B.C.
Yesterday, I did a 13km paddle in and around Birch Bay with a friend. I was in my Pygmy Arctic Tern, using the following gear:

1. Arctic Tern
2. Standard Pygmy Padded seat back
3. Thermarest Seat Cushion - 1/2 inflated
4. Level 6 Neoprene socks
5. Chota Neoprene boating shoes
6. Standard Pygmy Footrests

After about 4 kms paddling, my feet were totally numb and uncomfortable. By the end of our paddle, my feet actually had a burning sensation and were very uncomfortable. :(

So....Does anyone have suggestions how I can eliminate this problem? Unfixed, it will certainly limt my paddling ability for more than short periods.

Ian Mc.
 
Hi Ian,

I built a Pygmy double a couple of years ago and put the Therma rest seat pad supplied with the kit in my boat. My legs would go numb after about an hour of paddling. I ended up replacing the pads with carved minicell foam seats and now I can sit in the kayak for hours without any numbness. The problem with the Therma-rest pads is there is no support for your legs under the thigh area and I think this is what makes the legs go numb.
I was lazy and bought a pre-sculpted minicell seat and all I had to do was shape the bottom of it to fit the shape of my hull. I got the seat from Red Fish kayaks (link below). It's a little expensive but it saved me a lot of time not having to do it myself. If your comfortable carving minicell foam you can do it yourself for probably quite a bit less.

http://www.redfishkayak.com/foam.htm

Greg
 
Thanks, Greg....

I was pretty sure the first "fix" would be a proper seat. The Thermarest just doesn't cut it.

It's good to see that Joe has some pre-sculpted seats now. I was going to try my own, but I think his will be better for me.

The other thing I'm wondering about is the pressure on my heels. I wonder if putting some foam where they rest would help prevent my feet from losing circulation? That's got to be a big part of my foot problem, I guess :?:
 
Hi Ian,
I'm pretty new to the sport but I was just wondering if the socks and shoes in combination are too tight? The reason I ask is that I had the same sensations you describe when I used to wear double socks in my hiking boots. I thought it would give me extra insulation when in fact it restricted blood flow.

Not sure if this is relevant but I paddle with bare heels on the kayak bottom and haven't had a problem with any numbness yet.

daniel
 
I don't know, Elmo...

I used to paddle only with the Chota shoes, and still got the same problem with circulation, I think. Then I got the socks, too, and things seemed a bit better. Now, I'm getting the feet going to sleep, and getting the burning sensation a while after that :oops:

So, I don't really know exactly what I need to do. But, knowing this forum, someone will have an answer for me....

Ian Mc.
 
Before I built a minicell seat I used my partially inflated paddlefloat as a support for my thighs. That made a huge difference but exposed me to HUGE criticism from the lockstep Paddle Nazis and others. Hey, it worked, wasn't dangerous but didn't fit their mold of exactly how a cockpit should outfitted.

It wasn't the answer (minicell is) but made the pain go away and I've gotta tell you, it was pretty nice to be able to pull a paddlefolat out of the cockpit that didn't need much inflation when the water temp alone made controlled breathing difficult.

Call Joe and order a seat for your Tern. You will never regret it. Also consider getting enough foam to shim the front bulkhead so that you can use it, instead of those Keepers, for your feet. Much nicer. Much, much nicer.

Jon
 
Also consider getting enough foam to shim the front bulkhead so that you can use it, instead of those Keepers, for your feet. Much nicer. Much, much nicer.
Click to expand...

It's common for a whitewater kayak to have the paddler brace his/her feet against the bulkhead as opposed to foot pegs. It's also common to customize foam to fit the position of the feet when braced against the bulkhead. I have one boat where I have angled foam that looks like this: \/ (but a lower angle that ascii can't accommodate). This can spread the bracing load across your entire foot instead of having a pressure point against the instep, the heel or the ball of the foot.

Craig Jungers
Moses Lake, WA
 
Just a theory from a relative newbie. I was having the same issues with my boat and replaced the seat. This helped a bit but what really helps is to stretch the hamstrings well before getting in the boat and also maintaining a good posture. I occasionally lean back on my deck and take the weight of my seat. I have a herniated disc so these tips may not work for you. Good luck, dead feet and legs really suck when paddling.
 
The cause of legs falling asleep is that you are sitting on your sciatic nerve -- you need to elevate your thighs to eleviate the numbness. Try putting a foam wedge or a rolled up towel under the front of the Thermarest seat and it should make a huge difference.

But then again, a custom foam seat is much better than the stock Pygmy arrangment.

*****
 
seating

Ian, the mini cell pre-sculptured seating from Redfish is the way to go. I built a couple of terns last year and both my wife and I always had sleepy legs using the pygmy supplied seating and backrest after a paddle. I ordered two pre scultured seats last year and also ordered two foam kits for $10 a piece to carve some backrests, thigh braces and knee braces. We went for a paddle this weekend around Hatzic Lake and had no problems with comfort or sleepy legs after. My wife had back surgery a few years ago, so this was a good thing. I live in Abbotsford too, so you can always sent me a PM and drop by my house to see what I did.

Cheers, Bill
 
Thanks everyone

Thanks for all the replies. I hear the concensus...get a new seat. So, I'll call Joe this week and get myself a mincell, then go from there. :)

Bill, I would like to see how it fits in yours. I'll pm you later.

Ian
 
foam seat

Ian, just to clarify, I ordered the foam seat blanks from redfish and not the whole seat. I ordered the foam kit so I could carve my own backrest. The foam blank with the pre-sculptured seat gives you a good starting point to customize the seating for your own kayak.

Cheers, Bill
 
I went the "whole hog"..

Everyone's advice was consistent...make sure you stretch, and have a good seat. So...that's what I'm doing :D .

I called Joe at Redfish and ordered a full custom seat from him-backrest and all! 8) Joe says he'll make sure it gets delivered to my place in Birch Bay on Saturday, so I'll be paddling with it by Sunday.

I did think about only getting the starter seat, and doing the rest myself, but I don't have a lot of confidence in my abilities with foam cutting and shaping. I'm far more comfortable with a wood saw.

So now I'm excited about this week-end! What is it about us guys and new pieces of equipment? :wink:

Ian Mc.

p.s. I guess I don't need to see yours now, Bill, but we'll need to get out for a paddle together sometime, just to compare builds, etc.
 
Ian wrote:I did think about only getting the starter seat, and doing the rest myself, but I don't have a lot of confidence in my abilities with foam cutting and shaping. I'm far more comfortable with a wood saw.

Ian, once you have the seat blank cut to fit the boat, making a tush hollow is easy and fun: right-angle "grinder" with 80 grit on the pad takes it down quickly and leaves smooth surfaces. First use a Sharpie permanent marker to outline your thighs and buttocks on the foam while sitting in the boat (best done with minimal clothing on). Ease into it and you'll know when it is just right by testing as you go. I've done several custom minicell seats, some for me, and some for others :wink: . There is nothing more comfortable. 8)
 
Thanks for the encouragement, Dave. I'll try it on my next one, because I'm really getting the bug to do another kayak, or..... :lol:

I was looking at CLC's site today, and they've got a 15' sailboat with cabin and cuddy that they'll be selling the plans to soon.

Go take a look...it would be interesting to get your prespective on it in regard to our coastal waters. It's called the Pocketship, and here's the link:

http://www.clcboats.com/shop/boats/sail ... TSHIP.html

Ian Mc.
 
Wow. That Pocketship from CLC is a very sweet rig. I expect it is nothing you'd want to take outside Vancouver Island, but it might be a very sweet cruiser in the Gulf Islands, or similar.

You have definitely hit on something there, Ian. I hope you build one and take me for a sail!
 
After about 4 kms paddling, my feet were totally numb and uncomfortable. By the end of our paddle, my feet actually had a burning sensation and were very uncomfortable. Sad
Click to expand...
I feel your pain, literally. I suffer from the same thing. Like Dan_Millsip said, it is caused by pressure on the sciatic nerve.
Aside from changing to a seat that offered more under thigh support, (I put necky touring seats in my boats, lots of under thigh support at the right angle) what helped me was yoga.
I got that 'yoga for paddlers' dvd, and sweated and swore my way through it, a bunch of times, until my body started getting stretchier. Now, I find that if I keep up with the exercises, especially the ones that stretch out the sciatic nerves like down dog, and standing forward bend, I'm good. My legs don't fall asleep so much. I also had one of those cascade inflatable kidney things, that you squish under your thighs, in front of the seat. This worked great, but it was a pain, positioning it all the time. Velcro would solve this, but I'd have to go with a new seat with proper thigh support, and a stretching regime, for the win.
 
Stretcing is very important for sure

I agree totally about the stretching, and I should be "shot" for ignoring it. I did martial arts for over 20 years - training and teaching - and stretching was always the first 1/4 of the class, as well as the last 10 minutes.

I know all the right stretches, and all the likely injuries if they're not done. :)

But.... :oops: I've gotten lazy about stetching since I got sick a few years ago, and switched to more "passive" exercise, like paddling :wink:

It's time to smarten up and do my stretches every day again. Even more important if you consider another cause of my discomfort is likely old M.A. injuries coming back to haunt me.

Ian Mc.
 
CLC's Pocketship looks to be in a similar vein as the West Wight Potter; one of which (in fiberglass) I have and in which my children learned to sail and even to cruise (down the lake to grandma's house... where they anchored and spent the night). I think Pocketship might be an even nicer cruiser. I've had the Potter into the San Juan Islands and even down on the Sea of Cortez and it's been a fun little boat.

I often thought the Potter would make a nice buddy-boat to a kayaker if one has a significant other who doesn't like to paddle but would like to go along. The Potter has room for two grown-ups to sleep out of the weather. A very mini mothership.

The Pocketship looks very interesting. Although with the notoriously light summer airs in the San Juans (and, presumably, the Gulf Islands too) one would be well advised to have either oars and a good back or an auxiliary outboard.
 
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