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Saturna Island question

NuclearTester

Paddler
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
28
Hello. I'm planning a 5 day trip to Saturna Island starting June 30 and have a tricky question. For reasons outside of my control, I can't take a morning ferry. If I take evening ferry, I'll arrive on Saturna at 9:35pm. http://www.bcferries.com/schedules/southern/vade-current.php
My goal is to do circumnavigation and stay on Cabbage Island for few days. BTW, choice of Cabbage Island as a destination to experience some uncrowded sand beaches is due to excellent trip reports on WCP :wink: http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=36
After doing some research, it appears that it's best to go clockwise. This way I can maximize use of tidal currents and prevailing winds. But here is the problem. If I wait until 10:45pm to go through boat channel at slack tide (http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/boa/2015-06-30), I'll arrive at Cabbage campsite past midnight. Night paddling could be fun, but not in unfamiliar waters of exposed channel :roll:
I'm considering an idea of stealth camping in Winter Cove park. Yes, I know there are "no camping" signs there http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=60 I'd be packed with first light of course, but there is a Lamb festival that attracts a lot of people next day and it's held in this park :x I could probably even do without a tent, as it's expected to be 15°C at night and I can just sleep in the bag on a sleeping pad. Has anyone slept in that park? Any other ideas for places to stop overnight within 2-3 km from ferry terminal?
Another question: I've read that unofficial camping at Fiddlers Cove is permitted. Is that still the case?

Btw, the reason why I'm scared of unfamiliar open water at night is because my boat is going to be this heavily loaded recreational kayak with no skirts and I'm going solo: http://www.wildernesssystems.com/kayaks/pamlico/pamlico-135t
 
OK, I will start. DON'T GO! If you do, maybe rent a boat with a skirt, and proper hatches. Also, unsure of what experience you have, or if you are planning to wear immersion gear, such as a wet or dry suit.
I am trying not to be a party pooper, and you sound like a smart person, realizing the risks of night paddling, currents and so forth. I just have my reservations. You have little margin for error, if you capsize, or run into any other problems...
My suggestions, rent a proper boat for the trip, take a friend along, one with some experience, and...I am sure a few others may pipe in.
 
I agree fully with Rodnak. Without a properly outfitted boat, the trip you outline is very risky. The area off the end of Saturna can be very rough. A recreational boat with no sprayskirt is not adequate for that area. You would be much better tackling a more protected area such as around Wallace Island or Tent Island. Or, consider launching from Montague Harbour and exploring from there using the campground as a basecamp. You may be able to get someone to take you and your boat from the ferry landing to the Harbour. Do not attempt to paddle there from the ferry landing on Galiano, through Active Pass.

You still may encounter conditions which would swamp a boat not having a sprayskirt.

Paddling at night is risky, also. If you have to take a late ferry, stay near the landing and launch in the morning.
 
Thank you for your concern. I appreciate the advice, but I'm going to have to work withing limitations of what I have.
Btw, I love this kayak for it's luggage carrying ability and that is something that a typical kayak with hatches wouldn't be able to replace. Couple photos to illustrate this:
Hope to Vancouver trip: https://goo.gl/photos/RDaDhpcDwGSUSLdT6 That's a 5 gallon water bottle in there!
fully loaded:https://goo.gl/photos/5mqQkQGBk6j2gve99
Nanamo to Saltspring Island trip: https://goo.gl/photos/BNNNi2MT1KXMh4qK7
 
Astoriadave said:
If you have to take a late ferry, stay near the landing and launch in the morning.
That's exactly the advice I'm looking for, but I need more details. The problem is that I don't know where to stay near the landing. Nearest official campground is about 10 km away :cry:

Astoriadave said:
The area off the end of Saturna can be very rough. A recreational boat with no sprayskirt is not adequate for that area.
Thank you for the advice. I'll make sure to cross it only at slack tide.
 
Nuclear tester,

I am checking out on this. That second photo shows the boat overloaded to the point it would only take a very small windwave to swamp the boat. In addition, deck loading raises the center of gravity, making the chance of capsizing much greater. A spray deck would help a lot to reduce the danger.

I csn not endorse your plan. It is unsafe. I will not assist with any more information.
 
That's all right Dave. I've paddled without your assistance for the last 10 years after all :wink:
I do find your logic interesting though: "This person is not safe. I will not tell him how to make his trip safer because he is not going to pass my safety criteria anyway".
Would you not help an overweight friend choose a food in a restaurant because you disagree with his diet?

Here is a funny story. I was registered on this forum many years ago, when Paddling Locations section was still growing (who remembers that!). Posted a few times to forum, but often encountered judgmental tone, just like this time. So, I stopped posting here, but kept visiting mostly for "where did you paddle" thread. Now I thought I'd give it another shot, in case something changed. Unsurprisingly, found my old account deleted, probably due to inactivity, hence the post count and the newbie status. One thing I can't help but notice is that how much less the forum activity is now in contrast to what it was a few years ago. Take a look at where did you paddle in June: 3 posts so far. Compare it with same thread in June 2007: 87 posts. Wonder why. Is the sport that much less popular now? Or is there another reason?

Anyway, I'm not trying to achieve anything with this rant. I'm just sharing sadness that I'm experiencing seeing this formerly glorious community slowly loosing its vitality. Sorry for the negative tone guys. I hope one day we can all be friends again, regardless of equipment choices we make :hug
 
NuclearTester said:
That's all right Dave. I've paddled without your assistance for the last 10 years after all :wink:
I do find your logic interesting though: "This person is not safe. I will not tell him how to make his trip safer because he is not going to pass my safety criteria anyway".
Would you not help an overweight friend choose a food in a restaurant because you disagree with his diet?

Here is a funny story. I was registered on this forum many years ago, when Paddling Locations section was still growing (who remembers that!). Posted a few times to forum, but often encountered judgmental tone, just like this time. So, I stopped posting here, but kept visiting mostly for "where did you paddle" thread. Now I thought I'd give it another shot, in case something changed. Unsurprisingly, found my old account deleted, probably due to inactivity, hence the post count and the newbie status. One thing I can't help but notice is that how much less the forum activity is now in contrast to what it was a few years ago. Take a look at where did you paddle in June: 3 posts so far. Compare it with same thread in June 2007: 87 posts. Wonder why. Is the sport that much less popular now? Or is there another reason?

Anyway, I'm not trying to achieve anything with this rant. I'm just sharing sadness that I'm experiencing seeing this formerly glorious community slowly loosing its vitality. Sorry for the negative tone guys. I hope one day we can all be friends again, regardless of equipment choices we make :hug


Does ten years of paddling experience without incident diminish the benefit of flotation or sealed bulkheads both fore and aft, in sea waters of this temperature?

It is a sad truth that a lot of people have died in these waters when their recreational kayaks, lacking proper floatation, overturned and offered those paddlers no suitable platform for their own self-rescue.

Also, if you weren't seeking feedback regarding your boat and load, why did you choose to provide links to the kayak information and include load descriptions? If you've been a past member of this forum then I expect you knew what kind of responses were coming. This community in 2007 was for the most part employing the same type of safety measures back then as they advocate for now. Why did you not simply ask for route information alone?
 
NuclearTester, I can see why you'd react the way you have, but in reality, most folks on this forum (including Dave) have been incredibly supportive and helpful, especially to newer kayakers just getting into this. I guess that's not the case for you, but from the first post, it did look like you were in way over your head and weren't recognizing the danger.

I think your own post gave hints that you were aware that kind of boat wasn't such a great idea for that kind of water. Dave's first post included some suggestions for trips in more protected areas, but obviously it's up to you to recognize your own experience and skill level and act accordingly.

Anyway, I hope you stick around and don't let this discourage you from posting on the forum. The activity here has definitely been pretty slow the last few months, we could use your help :D I don't think safety reservations and people voicing their opinions is what caused the decline - for one, I bet most folks weren't posting about their trips on Facebook back in 2007. The forum here is a treasure trove of info that can't be easily searched for on Facebook, but I'm sure for every trip report we get here on WCP, there are dozens of pictures and posts on Facebook.
 
M2G said:
Does ten years of paddling experience without incident diminish the benefit of flotation or sealed bulkheads both fore and aft, in sea waters of this temperature?

It is a sad truth that a lot of people have died in these waters when their recreational kayaks, lacking proper floatation, overturned and offered those paddlers no suitable platform for their own self-rescue.
I could answer that question, but I doubt you care to know the answer.

M2G said:
Also, if you weren't seeking feedback regarding your boat and load, why did you choose to provide links to the kayak information and include load descriptions? If you've been a past member of this forum then I expect you knew what kind of responses were coming. This community in 2007 was for the most part employing the same type of safety measures back then as they advocate for now. Why did you not simply ask for route information alone?
I probably shouldn't answer this question either, as usually try to avoid nonconstructive confrontational questions, but I'll bite. I didn't simply ask for route information because I expected to be judged based on my question about camping in undesignated location, because I know some members frown at that practice. So I thought it would be a good idea to provide justification why I don't want to paddle at night to official campground. Then it was suggested to me that I should get a boat with hatches, so I attempted to provide justification for my choice of boat based on my load requirements. Apparently, one justification leads to request for another and so on.

Anyway, I expected to be disappointed when I decided to post here, but not to this extent. Thanks for taking time to post valuable information and above all for the friendly attitude guys. Have a fun summer!
 
tiagosantos said:
NuclearTester, I can see why you'd react the way you have, but in reality, most folks on this forum (including Dave) have been incredibly supportive and helpful, especially to newer kayakers just getting into this. I guess that's not the case for you, but from the first post, it did look like you were in way over your head and weren't recognizing the danger.
Oh, I totally agree. It's good to suggest that a person doesn't recognize the danger. But I also think it's proper to recognize when a person thanked you for your suggestion and move on without turning a difference of opinion into a confrontation.

tiagosantos said:
I think your own post gave hints that you were aware that kind of boat wasn't such a great idea for that kind of water. Dave's first post included some suggestions for trips in more protected areas, but obviously it's up to you to recognize your own experience and skill level and act accordingly.
That's what I'm saying. Everyone has a right for self-determination, no matter what we think of their choice. I don't judge people doing activities that I deem as extremely unsafe when I watch Red Bull channel https://www.youtube.com/user/redbull

tiagosantos said:
Anyway, I hope you stick around and don't let this discourage you from posting on the forum. The activity here has definitely been pretty slow the last few months, we could use your help :D I don't think safety reservations and people voicing their opinions is what caused the decline - for one, I bet most folks weren't posting about their trips on Facebook back in 2007. The forum here is a treasure trove of info that can't be easily searched for on Facebook, but I'm sure for every trip report we get here on WCP, there are dozens of pictures and posts on Facebook.
Yet I watched forums for other sports that I participate in grow and continue growing: http://www.advrider.com/forums/
You'd think that Facebook would have similar effects on all forums regardless of type of activity. I've noticed that the only difference between forums that grew, stagnated or died out was the attitude and enforcement of forum rules that encourage constructive conversations.
This forum used to be even bigger treasure trove before and trip reports were posted more often. I'd love to contribute to the growth, but it's really discouraging when you expect that the first reply will be to judge your PFD or boat load.
 
The scope of the two forums is completely different.. One has 287000 members, the other 2700.. One is global, the other is local. Completely different activities with very different demographics.. But yes, I get your point.

I don't know what it is, but I'm happy to keep speculating :) I'd say that the stakes (as far as safety) are higher in kayaking, but compared to touring around the world on a bike, maybe not. Is it that we all have known folks who have died on bikes, where it's almost an accepted risk, vs kayaking where deaths are still shocking for everyone and make "waves" around the forums everytime they occur? Is it the generally older demographics in sea kayaking that feel more protective vs the younger adventurous bike riders? I dunno.. But from the few forums I regularly visit (admittedly, not as many as 5 or 6 years ago), WCP is by far the most civilized and least confrontational. Maybe a slight lean towards condescendence, but other than a couple of heated threads (including a famous one about ugly rocks in Galiano Island :lol: ).. Anyway, I'm hoping you'll still stick around and give it another shot.
 
tiagosantos said:
Is it that we all have known folks who have died on bikes, where it's almost an accepted risk, vs kayaking where deaths are still shocking for everyone and make "waves" around the forums everytime they occur?
I don't know. Each person chooses their own acceptable risk level and I have no problem with that. To me personally my most memorable kayak trip was when waves were so big that I couldn't see my partner 50 meters away and I was continuously soaking water with t-shirt, because I didn't have a pump. And the most memorable camping experience when I came back to a tent to find large bear ass sticking from the entrance and watching him chew through my sleeping bag as he was trying to get to snacks I've hidden under it. But I do know that some people would not drive in a car with less than 8 airbags. I fully support their choice and would never tell them that they are wrong. The only thing I ask is that they don't try to force their world view on me.

tiagosantos said:
WCP is by far the most civilized and least confrontational.
Canadian forums usually have passive aggressive confrontations, so they often appear as non-confrontational :twisted:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLdJJ8NBOo8
 
There are more and more adventurers out there today, driving up participation in those areas and forums, but for many, sea kayaking isn't even on the radar. It's largely not part of popular culture.

Point us to a regional kayak touring forum of roughly the same age, that has grown and outpaced this community. I think the general consensus has been that the number of sea kayakers has declined, and whatever the cause is, is probably limiting activity in these forums.

Confrontational? My post was based on your reply to Dave and in hopes of illustrating why you received those responses.

Most people here care enough about you to let you know what they think, based on their experience. Your post sent up a number of red flags and people responded to those.

Safe travels.


So let's talk about your choice in forum handles. :wink:
 
There are more and more adventurers out there today, driving up participation in those areas and forums, but for many, sea kayaking isn't even on the radar. It's largely not part of popular culture.

Point us to a regional kayak touring forum of roughly the same age, that has grown and outpaced this community. I think the general consensus has been that the number of sea kayakers has declined, and whatever the cause is, is probably limiting activity in these forums.

Confrontational? My post was based on your reply to Dave and in hopes of illustrating why you received those responses.

Most people here care enough about you to let you know what they think, based on their experience. Your post sent up a number of red flags and people responded to those.

Safe travels.
I think the general consensus has been that the number of sea kayakers has declined, and whatever the cause is, is probably limiting activity in these forums.
Care to post some references? All I could find is data from 2012 and it showed continued growth.
http://www.paddlinglight.com/articles/kayaking-and-canoeing-participation-rates/
Wait, there is another one from 2013. Again, continuous growth.
http://www.statista.com/statistics/191249/participants-in-kayaking-in-the-us-since-2006/

I'd call any post that belittles another persons choice and asks him to explain himself as confrontational. Perhaps it's an overreaction. I apologize for steering up the piece in the forum and have a good day.

M2G said:
So let's talk about your choice in forum handles. :wink:
Hmmm? Not sure I understand this joke correctly. Sarcasm doesn't always work well on the Internet.
 
NuclearTester said:
M2G said:
So let's talk about your choice in forum handles. :wink:
Hmmm? Not sure I understand this joke correctly. Sarcasm doesn't always work well on the Internet.

A joke about redirection. And the joke is, that the attempt in redirection is a fail because it's judging you on some other level.

Happy paddling.
 
M2G said:
A joke about redirection. And the joke is, that the attempt in redirection is a fail because it's judging you on some other level.
Happy paddling.
:lol: :) LOL, Ok. No hard feelings :wink:
 
tiagosantos said:
Canadian forums usually have passive aggressive confrontations, so they often appear as non-confrontational :twisted:

Sorry, eh? :lol:
canadian-stereotype-comics.jpg

JK. :hug
 
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