• We apologize for the somewhat convoluted sign-up process. Due to ever-more sophisticated attacks by chatbots, we had to increase our filtering in order to weed out AI while letting humans through. It's a nuisance, but a necessary one in order to keep the level of discourse on the forums authentic and useful. From the actual humans using WCP, thanks for your understanding!

Saturna Island question

NuclearTester said:
One thing I can't help but notice is that how much less the forum activity is now in contrast to what it was a few years ago. Take a look at where did you paddle in June: 3 posts so far. Compare it with same thread in June 2007: 87 posts. Wonder why. Is the sport that much less popular now? Or is there another reason?
While your perception may be that the site is not as busy as it once was, this is simply not the case. Our site statistics indicate that visits to the site have increased each year since the outset. Perhaps people aren't posting as much because they're finding answers to their questions without asking.

It's never been our objective with this site to make it the busiest or the biggest -- only to provide relevant and useful information to those involved in or looking to get involved in the sport. That goal is still being met so we're totally fine with our little corner of the web.
 
Why are you using up so much internet space on this dude?

He's just looking for a fight.

He should find a different place to express his immaturity.
 
Dan_Millsip said:
Perhaps people aren't posting as much because they're finding answers to their questions without asking.
That's why I specifically compared "Where did you paddle" threads, as that is not the section where people post questions. Visiting, but not posting does not refute my hypothesis however. I've been visiting it too all these years, but felt intimidated to post a question.

Dan_Millsip said:
It's never been our objective with this site to make it the busiest or the biggest -- only to provide relevant and useful information to those involved in or looking to get involved in the sport. That goal is still being met so we're totally fine with our little corner of the web.
Yes, I know. Not trying to knock it down, as I understand that even keeping a hobby site like this going is a significant effort. But lets face the facts. The design haven't been updated since... Ever? Paddling locations sections that I used to check every months for updates a long time ago hasn't changed in years and still has photo size suitable for a flip phone. Yes, it's still the best resource for local paddlers. But it could be so much more!

I watched another local forum go from 20 threads per month to 3. It's now a corpse of former self: http://www.vancouverscootering.com/
And another one that I could check every evening that became barely updated now: http://bb.bc4x4.com/
It pains me to see every time site and forum activity goes down because I've seen enough times that this trend is unrecoverable unless site owners take steps to fix underlying reasons. I hope I'm wrong about WCP. Thanks for keeping it alive for so many years Dan.
 
Let's please leave the unwarranted comments behind and keep to the topic of the discussion which is to provide NuclearTester with answers to his questions in the first post. Thanks.

NuclearTester said:
Hello. I'm planning a 5 day trip to Saturna Island starting June 30 and have a tricky question. For reasons outside of my control, I can't take a morning ferry. If I take evening ferry, I'll arrive on Saturna at 9:35pm. http://www.bcferries.com/schedules/southern/vade-current.php
My goal is to do circumnavigation and stay on Cabbage Island for few days. BTW, choice of Cabbage Island as a destination to experience some uncrowded sand beaches is due to excellent trip reports on WCP :wink: http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=36
After doing some research, it appears that it's best to go clockwise. This way I can maximize use of tidal currents and prevailing winds. But here is the problem. If I wait until 10:45pm to go through boat channel at slack tide (http://www.dairiki.org/tides/daily.php/boa/2015-06-30), I'll arrive at Cabbage campsite past midnight. Night paddling could be fun, but not in unfamiliar waters of exposed channel :roll:
I'm considering an idea of stealth camping in Winter Cove park. Yes, I know there are "no camping" signs there http://www.westcoastpaddler.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=79&pos=60 I'd be packed with first light of course, but there is a Lamb festival that attracts a lot of people next day and it's held in this park :x I could probably even do without a tent, as it's expected to be 15°C at night and I can just sleep in the bag on a sleeping pad. Has anyone slept in that park? Any other ideas for places to stop overnight within 2-3 km from ferry terminal?
Another question: I've read that unofficial camping at Fiddlers Cove is permitted. Is that still the case?

Btw, the reason why I'm scared of unfamiliar open water at night is because my boat is going to be this heavily loaded recreational kayak with no skirts and I'm going solo: http://www.wildernesssystems.com/kayaks/pamlico/pamlico-135t
 
Outsider said:
My comments have nothing to do with proper argument or personal attack.
mmmm, what?

Outsider said:
Your 'Canadian' comments are offensive.
Perhaps you've noticed that youtube video I posted is in Comedy category and the image is clearly labeled Canadian Stereotype Comics. Not sure what could have offended you.

Please feel free to stop replying to me in order to save "internet space".

Anyway. I don't see the point of continuing conversation on this forum. It's not exactly what I would call useful and constructive. I definitely will not get an answer to my original and very simple question. And I will not be able to change the attitudes prevalent here. If anyone wants to have a polite conversation based on mutual respect, I'm open to it. (Yeah, right, as if that's going to happen). Otherwise, let's stop all the unnecessary typing. Dan, please feel free to delete my account.
 
I asked that all of the unwarranted comments be left behind yet you, of all people in this discussion bring them forward and in the same breath have the nerve to say the discussion here is not "useful and constructive". Talk about respect. :roll:

Also, you mentioned that your previous account was deleted -- it wasn't. We don't delete accounts here. Never have. We have on occasion banned a person or two for being continuously rude or confrontational -- we're happy to oblige if this site is not good enough for you.
 
Sorry Dan, I was already typing my answer and didn't see your reply where you suggested to keep it on topic. My bad. I really appreciate it. I'm typing this from Android phone and it's not easy to manipulate multiple tabs here to stay updated. My mistake :oops:
I thought my account was deleted, but perhaps I just used a different login at that time. maybe I was still tester.
Funny story: I was Tester on every forum, as in Software Tester, but then somebody asked me "what kind of tester? Pregnancy tester?". So I changed all my tags to whatever "cool" type of tester came to my mind first. :lol:
 
Ah, me. This discussion reinforces my pledge not to engage in polemics.

I have been distracted with other things. I guess I missed a lot.

Back to the subject.

Nuclear Tester, seems to me there might be a lot of your questions and issues yet unanswered or resolved. I don't have much to add, from what I recall of what has accumulated. Just two or three items:

First, I imagine you might be able to commando camp close to the Saturna ferry landing if you arrive late enough and leave early enough. I think some WCP folks have done that. Perhaps they will chime in. Others here have made use of the pub. Could be it will be open for breakfast. There used to be a small convenience store there also, for last minute stuff.

Second item I think you mentioned was the intent to pass the eastern end of Saturna at slack current. I've never paddled around it, so I have no specific wisdom on that. Were you planning on using Washburnes tables or something equivalent? That point is well known by small boaters as likely to develop a substantial tide rip when the wind is up, which can be a barrier, sometimes persisting past slack in the current tables. Could be others will know if it is possible to slip inside that rip using a counter current, making it possible to sneak by either before or after slack, depending on which way the wind blowing.

One other concern is Boat Passage, the most obvious route from the "inside" of Saturna to the Tumbo side. That can run up a pretty good head current on the ebb. Likely you would want to pass it at the tail of the flood. Will that work out timing wise for you? With your experience on the Fraser River, eddy lines such as are formed exiting Boat Passage should not be a problem I expect. A buddy of mine got tossed there, on the E side, I believe. With an assisted rescue from his wife, he was back in his boat pretty quickly.

Maybe you can drag us back and highlight the most important issues remaining.

I still think it a pretty risky venture in the boat you have, but you are the guy taking the risk, so that's really your decision, not mine. Good luck with it. Cabbage and Tumbo have been on my list for a long time, so I am hoping for a report when you return.
 
OK i have not looked at the guys boat and gear etc. But i know a lot about Saturna Island!!!! Under no circumstances will you get away with camping June 30 at Winter Cove and you should not try. There is a massive !!!!! community event the Lamb BBQ, there on the 1st and the place will be packed the day before and super early the next day with volunteers and set up. It is a fund raiser for the Island and all done by volunteers. SO just don't do it. I might even feel a need to rat you out. The place will be crawling with winter cove boaters and other folks as well so there will be tons of folks in the bay to see your attempt at camping there. There are on island park folks and the limited police presence will be more due to this big event. If I can figure out how to post photos I can show you how busy winter cove will be with boats etc.

There is no legal place to camp near the Ferry dock (yet !! but there is some hope of developing one) and you just should not try and go that distance at night regardless of your kayak which I have not seen. Cabbage etc and East Point can get crazy and well it is NIGHTIME. I am pretty sure there is camping at Breezy Bay B and B which has water access. and would be a safer place to kayak to in the middle of the night. Not sure they want someone coming that late. but call them, It is not too very far by boat. Not going in the direction you proposed but not very far either out of your way. The pub is right at the ferry dock, maybe they might help you out with some ideas as well.

Now I would be cautious around east point with currents etc, Slack tide is best, no ideal current chart but Boundary Pass works reasonably well.

I am assuming from the comments you are in a recreational kayak, so do boat passage at slack. or close.

Other thing to let you know is the ferry on the 30th will be incredibly busy because of the Lamb BBQ, which is super fun, but everyone goes to it.. So the ferries will be packed, so even walk ons may be turned away. you are coming from what direction?
 
so....if I could go back to the original post. The sand beaches are nice and if you are lucky enough to have few people there, you will not escape the raccoons. protect your food during the day as well as night, they are not shy! Portland island now has a food cache. Let us know if there is one on cabbage now too.

Plan the currents around east point to Navarez carefully as well as boat pass. If you can leave mid morning or early afternoon you may want to consider taking the ferry to Swartz bay and then transfer to saturna. A much longer ferry ride but it's a nice view and may get you more daylight.
 
Thank you guys! A lot of very valuable advice to go through and more research to do :)
Astoriadave said:
Maybe you can drag us back and highlight the most important issues remaining.
Found this post http://www.writenet.com/nextlevl/Bicycling/Saturnabike.htm telling that camping at Fiddlers Cove is permitted.
The generosity of the Tsawout Band allows us to camp
at Fiddlers Cove. It is not necessary to get advance
permission, but you must practice zero-impact camping.
Is that still true?

kate said:
ferries will be packed, so even walk ons may be turned away. you are coming from what direction?
I had no idea that walk-ons can ever be turned away :? Has anyone ever experienced this or is it an unconfirmed rumor? I'm coming from Tsawassen.

DoubleG said:
you will not escape the raccoons. protect your food during the day as well as night, they are not shy!
Would food be safe with me in the tent at night or is there a possibility of waking up and discovering a raccoon next to me? Would they chew through tent?
Perhaps I should take some popcorn with me.
raccoon-popcorn-o.gif
 
Re foot passengers. I would just get there pretty early. It is super rare for them to turn away foot passengers but this is the time of year where it maybe an issue on Saturna. They also supposedly take reservations for foot passengers on the gulf islands ferries, not online but over the phone see below
"Foot Passenger Reservations from Tsawwassen to the Southern Gulf Islands
Foot Passenger customers travelling from Tsawwassen to the Southern Gulf Islands between May 1 and September 7, 2015 can make a reservation. BC Ferries is providing customers the opportunity to secure their travel plans when travelling to the Southern Gulf Islands during the busy summer months. Travel must be paid for at time of booking (no reservation fee will apply) while space is available. To make a reservation, please call Customer Care at 1-888-BC-FERRY (223-3779)."

Re racoons at Cabbage, funny story some poor kayak campers were there when I was doing a day trip from Saturna. The racoons ate through a couple of their plastic water containers and they leaked. might be worth thinking of ways to keep your food and water very racoon proof while there. But lovely place to camp, usually empty but maybe a bit busy now with this great weather.
Make sure you explore Tumbo island ( which you will have to kayak or swim to ) as there some lovely trails on the island, If you can stop at East Point park. Navarez Bay, Murder Point, Taylor Point, Saturna Beach ( near the winery) and of course the public dock and the pub.

Of note there is camping at Breezy Bay B and B, and there is talk of trying to develop a tent camping site right next to the ferry and pub, This will make it much easier for kayakers and bikes to use the island.

Also Pub has great food, and it is next to the ferry dock. ( might not have food that late however) There is a charming cafe in an old double decker bus That is great for lunch and breakfast very short walk from the pub, Great store on the island. which is a bit more of a walk but you could likely talk someone into giving you a ride too.

Not aware re camping at Fiddlers. But Navarez bay is reasonably close and a lovely spot. I would say it is a more lovely spot.
 
kate said:
It is super rare for them to turn away foot passengers but this is the time of year where it maybe an issue on Saturna.
I've managed to switch my vacation days to earlier date, so I don't have to compete with the crowds. Leaving this weekend :D

kate said:
The racoons ate through a couple of their plastic water containers and they leaked.
Is my water safe from raccoons in 5 gallon bottle. I know the plastic its made of is very tough, but I'm not sure what raccoons are capable of.
CaseStudy_Tritan5Gallon.jpg

I guess I'll have to take ammo boxes for the food. I'm wondering how guys with smaller kayaks keep the food secure. Btw, if anyone needs local source for ammo boxes, Princess Auto sells them: http://www.princessauto.com/en/b/surplus/surplus/surplus/military/storage/N-1n1n1cn
I used them on multiple trips as bear-proof storage. They are also water proof, but very heavy.
3480009.jpg
 
Didn't see this before.
"A few hundred yards from the point, on the north side, is well sheltered beach to land kayaks ans scout the current around East Point." - That's handy :) Sounds like a good idea to relax at the beach, explore the park and wait for slack tide.
Thanks!
 
i meant to post more, I kayak in this area lots as i have a friend who has a place near East point, but am a cautious kayaker and do not want to sell myself as an expert. East point can be tricky but usually dead easy at slack if weather is fine ( reasonably estimated by Boundary pass currents).

I am kind of chicken so often plan to go around at slack which is close to Boundary pass slack. but easy way to check it out is go to the shell beach just before east point, and walk over and look at the currents. East Point park is gorgeous and look for orcas, as they often pass by there. there is a small museum in the park which is worth going into see if it is open.

I usually go through close to the point and stay close to shore as you go around the point.

Other area to be cautious is at the south east points of Tumbo island.

it is fine to kayak around there, and my standard almost daily kayak is to circumnavigate Tumbo Island, but at times the currents are pretty strong around the two Tumbo points on the south east part of the island. So either check the currents or be very cautious.

Sometimes you can get a current around there that sweeps you into Boundary pass and pulls you towards boiling reef. The way to avoid this is to cross over to Saturna before you get to the east tip of Tumbo.

Another thing to know is Tumbo channel currents always go in one direction. Towards east point. They vary with intensity but they aways go towards east point. Odd but that is the way it is.

Finally re camping at Fiddlers. I doubt there is much space to camp at Fiddlers as it is almost all beach. I think Navarez bay is absolutely gorgeous and a nicer spot for camping. There are a few nice walks/ small hikes to do from Navarez bay ( Monarch head is really worth doing) and just walking to the point nearby the camping area as well as walking to Echo beach.

I would stop near Murder Point ( interesting story), Taylor bay ( remnants of old stone house) , Saturna Beach ( sandy beach and park near the winery on saturna). The pub by the ferry, their are 2 great cafes, one is in a bus very near the ferry "wild thyme cafe'.

The kayak from Boat passage to cabbage is not that exciting. But Tumbo island and Cabbage are beautiful. Go to Tumbo and walk some of the trails. The scenery from Tumbo onward is amazing !!! best orca viewing in the gulf islands occur around the south east side of east point. From East point to Saturna beach there will be almost no houses, there is very little boat traffic as well so be careful as you will likely be totally on your own without anyone to rescue yourself if you are in trouble. Also that stretch can be really challenging in rough weather as it is totally exposed to Juan de Fuca currents etc. So i would never do the East Point to Saturna Beach kayak when conditions are not very favorable. I actually also never do it alone. (while i go to tumbo and cabbage alone a lot). But i am very safety cautious. But the kayak from East point to Saturna beach is one of my favorites.
 
DoubleG said:
protect your food during the day as well as night, they are not shy! Portland island now has a food cache. Let us know if there is one on cabbage now too. .

This, at least, I can help with. My buddy and I camped on Cabbage just prior to the recent WCP get-together. It now has one of those chest style metal food caches, same style as on Portland Island.
 
Back
Top