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Nordkapp HS with C-trim rubber

A

arluk007

Paddler
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Messages
12
Location
Houghton,MI
Wondering if anyone has experience with one of these boats. The last 2 numbers of the serial number is 83 but it is in pristine condition. It makes my Mariner II feel like a barge. But it has the tiny 8" hatch covers fore and aft, the old climp pump on the back deck, and a very hard to adjust cross bar foot rest. That cross bar mounts on two horizontal fiberglass fins that protrude into the cockpit a lot so not a lot of foot room up there. I like the idea of a rudder especially in cross winds when fully loaded on long crossings. It's not a boat to take pictures from, not enough primary stability. I've been doing some speed trials to see how much faster it is compared to the Mariner. I suspect it will be slower in rough conditions due to more bracing but I had it in some 1-3 foot chop so far and not any bracing required there. The asking price is very hard to pass up. any feed back would be very appreciated. Oh, and it is a very wet ride compared to the Mariner but I like it as long as my paddle is in the water and under way.
 
I have owned two old old Nordkapps (1986 HS w/o skeg and an 1989 HM) and a newer 2010 version. I have never paddled the Jubilee or H2O editions. Yours appears to be the older or original vintage, quite possibly an '83 as suggested by the serial number. I am a little perplexed by the rubber VCP hatches as my '86 had a screw on type which I thought was standard at the time.

Was the rudder added on by the previous owner? I've never seen that. Kind of a shame (just my opinion being a bit of a Nordkapp purist). That certainly is a sweet looking old Nordkapp.

My '86 also had that terrible foot bar/fin. I cut it out and went with foam on the bulkhead. The '89 had Yakima foot braces.

Your statement about primary stability is a common complaint about the early Nordkapps. A load helps a bit, but as you gain more time on the water in the Nordkapp you may not even notice. I never quite understood, but the old Nordkapps seem much more "seaworthy" in rougher conditions than in calm, guess that is when secondary stability kicks in.

I don't have any data from GPS or anything like time over a measured distance, but the older Nordkapps seem to be a bit faster than most other kayaks I've paddled, particularly the HM version seems faster. The just feel like they track and glide a little better.

If you haven't seen it, this website in the almanac section has a lot of Nordkapp information.
http://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/
 
If the asking price is "very hard to pass up", then I wouldn't. I agree with semdoug that it appears to have been modified some. I'm not a purist, so the foot bar arrangement & chimp pump would have to go if it were mine. The condition looks outstanding for its age. It is as described - not much primary stability but good in rough water when you get used to it. It's a good gear hauling long distance boat. I'd gladly give that boat a new home.
 
Seadddict said:
If the asking price is "very hard to pass up", then I wouldn't. I agree with semdoug that it appears to have been modified some. I'm not a purist, so the foot bar arrangement & chimp pump would have to go if it were mine. The condition looks outstanding for its age. It is as described - not much primary stability but good in rough water when you get used to it. It's a good gear hauling long distance boat. I'd gladly give that boat a new home.
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Agreed. Good boat if the price is right as long as you fit without too much tweaking. Those with sciatica/buttock pain might do better elsewhere. Those cross-bar foot rests and glassed in fins gotta go with big feet or even small feet with anything but thin wet suite booties.

Mine was a 1981 HS to which I added a deep draft, modified C-Trim rudder, Seaward toe-controlled right and left foot peddles, got rid of the Chimp deck pump and added a foot pump, lowered the seat, and a few other for-me-specific mods. I sent a note off to Mike Buckley about the rubber hatches for his Nordy history page as mine was a 1981 model and all the Valley kayaks at Pacific Canoe Base in Victoria came with the 7" round rubber hatches. I paddled with Frank Goodman and Paul Caffyn when they came out this way to the west coast. Paul was for the rudder, Frank against, though Frank went back to the UK and designed the C-Trim immediately. Most fellow paddlers at the time bought the HM with the hull extension fin-skeg. It was a bear to turn in the wind but flawless in the rough and very fast. The HS with the rudder was in my opinion a better option for long touring in contrary seas even with the added drag of a rudder and ran really fast in big following seas. Matt Broze was of a different opinion of course about rudders. And Valley boats!.

The new Nordcapp Fourtie with a deployable skeg is of course the ultimate retro-kayak for a reinvention of the classic Nordy. Primary stability sucked with the old classic Nordkapp. I took paddlers out for test paddles as a favour to Derek at PCB. The odd flip occured as rescues were a real part of the demo. Either the prospective customer pursued the purchase or simply ran when we beached! :D

The Nordkapp wasn't ultimately as fast as some sea kayaks but you could push it hard and never really find that wall like with an Atlantis Spartan with more storage and primary stability, for example. Rough seas is where the Nordkapp hull really excels and although rough water handling capabilities are paddler-dependant and somewhat subjective, there was nothing you could throw at it to slow you down. It will not take care of you like an Explorer, but nor does it have the twitchiness underway like a Foster Legend (though that is a lovely hull and responsive for a performance touring kayak).

I disagree that the pre-modern Norkapp is a good gear hauler. By North American standards it isn't, but that is all relative too I suppose, to how much you carry and for how long and how much water you need to bring or not bring. To be honest the older Nordkapps do make you one with the water if a true low profile, narrow Greenland kayak isn't sufficient for your touring needs. It takes time and skill but inevitably rewards with an amazing ability to stay perpendicular in a wild sea state. That statement could be either myth or legend. In my opinion, I believe the performance to be legendary. And a used one in good shape for cheap is a no brainer. :lol:



Doug Lloyd
 
Doug mentions Paul Caffyn. Paul only paddles Nordkapps built by Sisson in New Zealand and always fitted with rudders and usually those hatches. However the steering pedals are far better, what are called "gas pedal" type. They are also not fitted with the Chimp deck pump.

As for Paul's paddling, circumnavigations all of New Zealand, Japan, Australia, Alaska, New Caledonia, one coast of Thailand and a couple of trips along the Greenland coast. He found fitting a rudder rather than using a skeg, increased his distance per day by 10-20 %. That's got to say something for rudders.

The Nordkapp was first built in 1975 and Paul's first circumnavigation was in 1978/79, around the South Island of New Zealand and around Australia 1981/82.
 
Mac50L said:
Doug mentions Paul Caffyn. Paul only paddles Nordkapps built by Sisson in New Zealand and always fitted with rudders and usually those hatches. However the steering pedals are far better, what are called "gas pedal" type. They are also not fitted with the Chimp deck pump.

As for Paul's paddling, circumnavigations all of New Zealand, Japan, Australia, Alaska, New Caledonia, one coast of Thailand and a couple of trips along the Greenland coast. He found fitting a rudder rather than using a skeg, increased his distance per day by 10-20 %. That's got to say something for rudders.

The Nordkapp was first built in 1975 and Paul's first circumnavigation was in 1978/79, around the South Island of New Zealand and around Australia 1981/82.
Click to expand...

I think Paul's early Nordkapps were pretty much the same mold as the UK one until Sisson started tweaking the design: I remember Paul complaining about the weight of the U.K. Nordkapps. He felt the end pours were way to heavy. He also didn't like the deck fittings and used rubber tubbing through the deck to run perimeter deck lines. I liked his rudder and felt it was better than the C-Trim. Not sure how efficient a flat piece of aluminum is in the water but Paul certainly cranked out the miles...

Bellow is an example of early Nordkapp rudders I believe...
 
The first 6 built by Sisson were to the British specs, they were bricks. After that they were all lighter down to about 13 kg for the Japanese and Alaskan boats. The rudder design came from Australia when Paul changed from skeg to rudder about Sydney, having started at Port Philip, Melbourne.

The decklines went through short plastic tubes moulded into the deck, a very neat way of doing it in glass, not easy to do with a plastic moulding.

The rudder pedals on Sisson boats were adjustable with the base held by 2 bolts moulded into the keelson and a slot in the pedal base. Another manufacturer used a fore and aft bar with holes in it and a sprung loaded pin - step adjustment. I used a bar and a webbing strap held by a camlock just in front of the seat, micro-adjustment and the easiest to adjust method. If adjusting, you had to also adjust the rudder lines on the Sisson boats, not necessary on mine as the rudder lines auto-adjusted.

Sisson moulded the seats in as a bulkhead so minimum water in the cockpit after a capsize.
 
13 kg, fairly sure and can check with Paul. Yes, he did have cracking problems. My wooden kayak into the water for testing was 13 kg, 18 kg fully fitted out and I suspect I could get rid of a couple of kg if I tried.

The British layup came to somewhere heading for 30 kg, hence the term "British heavies".
 
"Hiya Kaze, the Japkapp weighed in at 13.6 kg (30 pounds) all up; rudder and hatch covers and all. Used for the 1985 paddle around the four main islands of Japan. Still hanging in the garage; but the deck is a bit on the thin side now." says Paul.
 
Thanks everyone for the great feedback.

I've done some speed trials and on relatively flat Lake Superior water it is about the same speed as my Mariner. I averaged 4.9 kts on a 5 nmi out and back course with both boats although on separate days so the conditions may have differed. I had it out surfing some small 1-2 foot swell and it seems to accelerate better than the mariner. Side surfs are less violent and I think it tracks a little looser. This is all with the rudder up. I did some rock gardening on a 1-3 foot forecast onshore day and it does seem to inspire confidence in reflected wave conditions and in tight surge channels.

The main issue I have right now is the cockpit combing is really tight to the deck and only one of my spray skirts, a rubber randed one, fits in that tight spot but not all that well. One of my sewn bungee corded ones does not fit. I guess the combing could be cut off and raised. also, I think I would have to put in a bigger hatch cover in the rear for ease of loading camping gear.

I remember Matt Broze saying something like, Norkapps are not very fast for as tippy as they are. I wonder which boats out there would be faster but not as tippy as say the Foster Legend.
 
I had a race once with a paddler in a Winter's designed kayak, the Q700X. I kept pace but could not pass. Flat water. Both paddlers in good shape. It had good volume, good stability, and cockpit room. I had a bit of a race with Matt once on the lake near his old store. He kept pace with my Nordkapp but avoided broaches better when we were wake riding. The Mariner kayaks are easier to turn with leans and drop leg manoeuvres. Nice hulls.
 
I just got word from the original owner, he bought it from Stan Chladek's garage near Detroit MI back in 1985. Stan was just starting his Great River Outfitters store.
 
Doug, Interesting point about broaching but I was thinking this Nordakapp stays on a wave better than my Mariner. Probably a lot of factors involved like wave height and period.

I'm thinking my Mariner is loosing some hull speed because the gel coat it so scratched up from 2.5 decades of use.
 
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