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commercial campsites in deer group island

H

hmmm

Paddler
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
42
Hi all
Apparently there is a company trying to get the deer group campsites for them selves.
Its my understanding it is a Kayak company that has applied for this.
Does anyone know about this, because this will not go well with the residents of Bamfield and will be meet with server opposition.
:evil:
Land Act
: Notice to use Deer Group
area for commercial campsites.
Comments received until 30 Septem-
ber. See www.bamfielder.ca for de-
tails and contacts.
 
Blue Dog Kayaking (Dave Nichols' company) has applied to establish commercial campsites on the two best (and unspoiled) sites in the Deer Group:Stud Islets and Ross Islets.
We've seen the results at other sites when commercial interests 'take over' good sites and establish 'basecamps'.
I find it interesting that this application was submitted without any public discussion here (or anywhere I've seen) in the paddling community.
Let's do our best to prevent this from happening- not only by contacting Ministry of Forests before the end of September but also directing comments to BlueDog.
Email: paddle@bluedogkayaking.com
(Note: Blue Dog already has a permit to allow their business to operate in the Broken Group.)

The Lands File Number that has been established for this application is 10100-30/1414501. Written
comments concerning this application should be directed to the Land Officer, Ministry of Forests, Lands
and Natural Resource Operations at 4885 Cherry Creek Road, Port Alberni, BC, V9Y 8E9, or emailed to:
Jeff.Hallworth@gov.bc.ca. Comments will be received by MFLNRO until September 30th 2016.
Click to expand...


Some details from the Lands and Forests website: https://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosting/viewpost.jsp?PostID=51481
There's a link on that webpage to a powerpoint file with slides showing the Ross and Stud sites.
Client: Blue Dog Kayaking
Purpose: COMMERCIAL RECREATION/GUIDED SALTWATER RECREATION
Region: Vancouver Island, Nanaimo
Agency: Crown Land Allocation
File: #1414501

Jun 28, 2016

Location: Those parcels or tracts of unsurveyed Crown land lying in the vicinity of Ross and Stud Islets.
BCGS Mapsheet: 92C
Legal Description: Unsurveyed Crown foreshore or land being part of the beds of Imperial Eagle Channel and Trevor Channel
 
a Licence of Occupation – Commerical Recreation is not a commercial campground
BUT these are the main beaches at these locations!

Mr. David John Nichols is seeking permission to use areas in the Deer Group Islands as commercial campgrounds. The Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations requests your input by mail or email before September 30, 2016.
http://www.bamfielder.ca/

Take notice that David John Nichols has applied to the Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural
Resource Operations (MFLNRO), West Coast Region for a Licence of Occupation – Commerical
Recreation situated on Provincial Crown land located at The Barclay District.
http://www.bamfielder.ca/sites/default/ ... 20site.pdf

Location: Those parcels or tracts of unsurveyed Crown land lying in the vicinity of Ross and Stud Islets.
https://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosti ... stID=51481

maps at https://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosti ... ction=view
show the main beaches at Ross Island & Stud Islets.

Dave Nichols owns Blue Dog Kayaking
http://bluedogkayaking.com/our-team/
 
nootka said:
a Licence of Occupation – Commerical Recreation is not a commercial campground
Click to expand...

Do you know if there is a difference between this permit condition and the ones used to establish 'basecamps' and 'take over' sites in Johnstone Strait and on Spring Island for the whole paddling season?
 
Do you know if there is a difference between this permit condition and the ones used to establish 'basecamps' and 'take over' sites in Johnstone Strait and on Spring Island for the whole paddling season?
I would expect they are the same.

EDIT: sure looks the same
https://arfd.gov.bc.ca/ApplicationPosti ... mit=Submit


Commercial basecamps are supposed to have tent sites set aside for the public. IMHO Ross & Stud are too small for this to work.

The Ross Island location is listed as a primary campsite on the BC Marine Trails Network map,
while the Stud Islets beach is listed as an alternate campsite where the land tenure is private.
https://www.bcmarinetrails.org/bc-map

Is Blue Dog trying to take sites out of the marine trail?
 
The BC Marine Trails Network Association has been going through the same process with Sea to Sky Adventures applying for tenure in sites created last year as part of the Sea to Sky Marine Trail in Howe Sound. The BCMTNA has taken the position that the marine trail should not exclude commercial uses, but that sites should not be commandeered by commercial users. A step in the process is instituting a Commercial Code of Conduct for operators using marine trail sites, a process that we expect will take until the spring, if not longer. If successful it will mean that commercial users will agree to the code of conduct, and that will include incorporating public use into their site management, and consequently they can be held accountable to the Code of Conduct agreement. Public marine trail users will then have an avenue to launch complaints against a tour operator. It will also provide a framework for the public to understand the parameters regarding a commercial tenure of a marine trail location. Naturally this whole aspect is in the planning stage, but if the Sea to Sky Adventure experience is any indication, it is that the tenure application can be too long (30 years in that case), that uses are not specified and no provisions are stated for any limitations on the scope of the activities. Since that is a new marine trail capacity issues are very much a concern. You can probably expect the BCMTNA to be involved in the Deer Group application in some capacity as well, with hopefully the end result being the Commercial Code of Conduct that will allow ongoing monitoring of site use.

The BCMTNA is setting up a series of regional advisory panels to help with input in various stages of the marine trail process, so anyone who is interested in having input is welcome to apply to contribute to an advisory panel in you region. The public Code of Conduct and Commercial Code of Conduct will be part of that.

Also, watch for a major BC Marine Trails announcement shortly - the biggest in our history!
 
This is a travesty. No way is there any room for commercial operations at those sites. The Deers are campsite poor as it is.

How does this stuff get this far without involvement of user groups?
 
There's a lot of privately-held land in the Deer Group.
A 'business' should be able to negotiate a lease (or buy outright) a site for a basecamp, but it's a lot easier to use a 'formerly public asset' to turn a dollar.
Examples abound: there was a lively discussion here a few years ago about a large commercial group descending on Rum Island in the Gulf Islands 'National Park'.
Welcome to the 21st century!
 
jk said:
The BCMTNA has taken the position that the marine trail should not exclude commercial uses, but that sites should not be commandeered by commercial users.
Click to expand...

Cognitive dissonance:the mental stress or discomfort experienced by an individual who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time; performs an action that is contradictory to one or more beliefs, ideas, or values, etc...
 
This conversation seems to have been taken out of proportion and I feel clarification is required.

As per Paddle Canada Sea Kayak Manual, page 23, (V.17.00) 2016, that states

"It's imperative that businesses, individual owner/ operators & hired instructors offering or instructing PC courses ensure that host organisations have appropriate permits, licensing & insurance coverage"

This application has been made to conform to Paddle Canada Instructor guidelines and the application guidelines as per Ministry of Forests.

We propose to run 3 Paddle Canada Intermediate / advanced programs per annum in the Deer Group using Ross and Stud Islets as campsites. Two of those 3 programs being run in the shoulder season April, May to June 15th , from September 15th and October. We propose to only run one program during the summer June 15th, July and August to September 15th. No more than 4 nights per program, Instructor ratio 1:4. Small groups, low impact. We are not "taking over" the Islands and our presence will not impact on other kayakers wishing to camp at these sites.

Our business is about making people safer on the water & certainly does not involve taking over public land.

If anyone wishes to discuss this further I would be happy to discuss this matter.
My contact details are
Dave Nichols, owner Blue Dog kayaking
cell; 250 710 7963
email; paddle@bluedogkayaking.com

Also
for additional clarification please contact;
Jeff Hallworth, P.Ag. Licensed Authorizations Officer
Ministry of Forests, Lands and Natural Resource Operations
South Island Natural Resource District
4885 Cherry Creek Road, Port Alberni, BC, V9Y-8E9
Ph: 250-731-3022, Em: Jeff.Hallworth@gov.bc.ca
 
Dave, here's where I think the Commercial Code of Conduct may be helpful for both sides, as I don't think anyone is going to object to you seeking the proper permits to run some training sessions. I think the backlash here is that "commercial tenure" has a history of being abused in places like Johnstone Strait where public sites have been commandeered exclusively by a single tour operator. What I'm going to suggest as part of the BCMTNA Commercial Code of Conduct process is that commercial operators state dates of occupation that we can post on our map and so alert people to the commercial use and the extent of that use. That's in the future, but I hope you support that process so everyone understands what's involved rather than fearing the worst.
 
Blue Dog Dave said:
We propose to run 3 Paddle Canada Intermediate / advanced programs per annum in the Deer Group using Ross and Stud Islets as campsites.
Click to expand...
You have stated the instructor:student ratio; what will be the actual size of your groups?
How many tentsites will you be using?
Will your permit restrict you to 12 nights use per year?
For how many years will your permit be valid?

Why isn't the Broken Group - with many more campsites, and larger campsites - suitable for your classes?
 
We propose to run 3 Paddle Canada Intermediate / advanced programs per annum in the Deer Group using Ross and Stud Islets as campsites. Two of those 3 programs being run in the shoulder season April, May to June 15th , from September 15th and October. We propose to only run one program during the summer June 15th, July and August to September 15th. No more than 4 nights per program, Instructor ratio 1:4. Small groups, low impact. We are not "taking over" the Islands and our presence will not impact on other kayakers wishing to camp at these sites.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that clarification, Dave.

You would have been wiser to make an announcement back in May or June, because now there is an appearance of trying to avoid scrutiny.

If you have 5 campers for 4 nights, you will impact other kayakers wishing to camp at those sites.
Some people plan their vacations a year in advance; when will you announce the dates of your summer session?
 
nootka said:
If you have 5 campers for 4 nights, you will impact other kayakers wishing to camp at those sites.
Click to expand...
I was a student/customer in a 4:1 ratio class at Surge Narrows with Dave Nichols. On the second day there were 11 paddlers in our group.
 
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