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Cold feet options

I'm going to try the insulation first.:)
It might be worth a try to experiment with a vapour barrier (vapor barrier in the US). Basically plastic or coated nylon socks/ bags (plastic bread bags used to be the standard!) over your bare feet (or very thin liner socks), then your insulating socks over the vapour barrier.
It definitely worked for me in cold weather (snow) conditions.
Theory:
https://andrewskurka.com/2011/vapor-barrier-liners-theory-application/
Vapour barrier socks are sold at MEC and other outlets, but experiments with plastic bags will tell you if the idea will work.
 
Footwarmer outside drysuit won't work b/c the footwarmers can't get wet. I can't help getting my feet in the water entering and exiting the boat.:)
Yup, I didn't think about the 'Don't get 'em wet' issue.
Even wearing boots, there's always a chance of getting water inside when launching and landing. And definitely not something you want to worry about if you end up swimming for any reason....
Apparently the warmers can overheat seriously if wetted...
 
The chemistry of those handwarmers is pretty simple, just iron filings allowed to slowly oxidize when in contact with air, releasing heat, an "exothermic" reaction. But the speed of oxidation is affected by several factors. One is the concentration of oxygen. As Paws discovered, if the packets are trapped where air cannot diffuse in, they shut down pretty quickly. Salt is added to the mix, to promote mechanical breakdown of the thin layer of iron oxide so the underlying unreacted iron can combine with more oxygen. The action of the salt is enhanced if it gets a little moist, which can accelerate the process, to the extent that the packet might injure skin by blistering. A lot of moisture, such as happens if the packet gets sopping wet, for example, can isolate the iron from air and its oxygen, shutting down the oxidation.

An aside: a more complex process occurs when shredded iron and shredded rubber get wet, and oxygen infiltrates this mixture, resulting in further breakdown of the rubber into a slimy hydrocarbon mixture akin to crude oil, simultaneous with the generation of heat, lots of it. Sometimes enough to get that slime itself smoldering. Old shredded steel belted radial tires have been used as fill for slide areas, one of them across the Columbia near Ilwaco, inside Cape Disappointment State Park, leading to the catastrophic breakdown described above. Hydrocarbon slime leaked into the Columbia, prompting the removal and replacement of the shredded tire fill with inert gravel and rock, to the tune of several million dollars.

Old steel-containing tires have been know to do this, if in sufficient mass, at bootleg dumps, various places around the globe.
 
I keep a piece of foam at the bottom of the boat, under my heels, as a pad and insulation. But it is removable because I pull it out at camp and use it to sit on, especially with grimy picnic table benches (if available).

I had some neoprene mittens, but they were so tight around the wrist - watch out for that "waterproof" claim - they cut the blood off and my hands would get numb. Circulation is a good thing.

If you are pushing with your feet, on the peddles, as you paddle, then you are getting a more efficient stroke and getting some blood moving in your legs.
 
Here's my 2 cents, how I was dressed today (supermoon!!)
Helmet
2mm neoprene cap (more hoods in day hatch)
capilene top
very light fleece top
synthetic underwear
capilene long johns
plain fleece pants (ankle zips, but no zip, no belt loops so inexpensive)
thin nylon sock
midweight hiking sock
swellies (knee high neoprene boots)
neoprene gloves (they leak a little but low flow through), I add a layer inside if windy or rainy
This is stop & go exertion with the occasional capsize; I have little personal insulation; and some fingers on my left hand get cold easily due to damage from straight shaft ice tools so I closely monitor my warmth level. I sweat a little in the fleece top but not heavily; I tend to wear the fleece top in winter or if rainy because of the chance of multiple capsizes ... one light capilene shirt under a drysuit is not quite enough unless it is sunny and/or warm.
 
I can't help getting my feet in the water entering and exiting the boat.
So you have cold water trapped inside your boot and 2 pairs thin wool socks
Sounds like the culprit to me.

Figure out a test paddle where you can get in your kayak with at least one dry boot and see if that helps. If it does, get a pair of the high neoprene boots so your feet stay dry.
 
I keep a piece of foam at the bottom of the boat, under my heels, as a pad and insulation. But it is removable because I pull it out at camp and use it to sit on, especially with grimy picnic table benches (if available).

I had some neoprene mittens, but they were so tight around the wrist - watch out for that "waterproof" claim - they cut the blood off and my hands would get numb. Circulation is a good thing.

If you are pushing with your feet, on the peddles, as you paddle, then you are getting a more efficient stroke and getting some blood moving in your legs.
Yes, I do push with my feet and that is probably all that's keeping me from frostbite LOL!

My mittens do not have a tight cuff, or any cuff. That's why my hands got wet when I fell in (b/c of my frozen feet) when exiting the boat. I could put them under the drysuit wrist gaskets to prevent that, but did not b/c I wanted to be able to remove them to take pix, etc.
 
I can't help getting my feet in the water entering and exiting the boat.
So you have cold water trapped inside your boot and 2 pairs thin wool socks
Sounds like the culprit to me.

Figure out a test paddle where you can get in your kayak with at least one dry boot and see if that helps. If it does, get a pair of the high neoprene boots so your feet stay dry.
Well, my feet ARE dry. I'm in a drysuit. No water is getting to my actual feet. Just inside the neoprene bootie. Which, supposedly, like a wetsuit, holds a thin layer of water next to you that warms up and keeps you warm, right?

At these lakes and rivers, the launches are either boat ramps or big, nasty gravel. I'm semi-careful with my poly boat but am gonna be totally anal with the new boat. Not getting feet wet is pretty impossible, and the boat ramps tend to get deep fast--no way to be sure water wouldn't be over tall boots.
 
Well, my feet ARE dry. I'm in a drysuit. No water is getting to my actual feet. Just inside the neoprene bootie. Which, supposedly, like a wetsuit, holds a thin layer of water next to you that warms up and keeps you warm, right?

Yes your feet are dry. But they are cold, right? WHY are they cold?

How does that layer of cold water warm up? By heat transfer from your feet. In your case that means cold feet.
When the temp in an extremity drops, there is often a reduction in blood flow to the extremity. So your feet get cold and stay cold. Your two thin socks are not working for you. The drysuit provides minimal insulation.

Do the experiment of comparing foot in dry booty vs foot in wet booty, and report back.

I can get in my kayak from a ramp or dock without getting water inside my tall boots.
 
Those high neoprene boots really do the trick. Not only do they keep your feet dry but they add yet another layer of insulation to your lower calf. Happiness (and warmth) is dry feet.
 
People dealing with Raynaud's have a unique circulation issue. By "unique", I mean something close to "none" at extremities - or so has been my experience when trying to find a solution for them. All that insulation doesn't generate heat, it only keeps the heat generated in. And if it gets too tight, it makes the situation worse.

But if no heat is generated - then what. That's the challenge. One friend has had good luck xc skiing with the chemical hand warmers. But, as noted earlier, they usually require access to air, or occasional exposure to air to sort of recharge the chemical process. There are special chemical heat pads for feet - they have a sticky side to keep them from sliding in shoes - and they seem to work in that "foot" environment that doesn't have air exposure (and I'm sure the wearer is not expected to take their boots off every 30 minutes to and hour).

So a lot of solutions talk about more insulation. And I've read that with "training" - a programmed exposure to cold water - a person can deal with the cold better. But there wasn't a lot of supporting literature for that idea. I'd like to hear more ideas about getting heat to those extremities first. Then we can worry about the insulation needed to keep it there.
 
Yes your feet are dry. But they are cold, right? WHY are they cold?

How does that layer of cold water warm up? By heat transfer from your feet. In your case that means cold feet.
When the temp in an extremity drops, there is often a reduction in blood flow to the extremity. So your feet get cold and stay cold. Your two thin socks are not working for you. The drysuit provides minimal insulation.
Yes, but . . . I've been paddling for 3 years in these temps and never had a problem before, b/c I had the foot warmers. I'd rather find a solution other than "don't get the wetsuit booties wet" b/c that's just not practical. :)
 
There are special chemical heat pads for feet - they have a sticky side to keep them from sliding in shoes - and they seem to work in that "foot" environment that doesn't have air exposure (and I'm sure the wearer is not expected to take their boots off every 30 minutes to and hour).
Nope--that's just what I use! And they are supposed to need LESS air, but they still need SOME air. Some air gets through your sox and shoes. Some air, apparently, got into my dry pants. But not the dry suit (which is good from one perspective).
 
There are special chemical heat pads for feet - they have a sticky side to keep them from sliding in shoes - and they seem to work in that "foot" environment that doesn't have air exposure (and I'm sure the wearer is not expected to take their boots off every 30 minutes to and hour).
I read some reviews (at MEC) for the chemical foot warmers - they are 'mixed'. One guy said that they stopped working and were 'ice cold' within 30 mins inside his cycling shoes and overshoes; the next cyclist review said that they were great!
Thoughts:The more layers of fluffy socks (or something like Lamilite socks), the more air will be inside the foot area of your drysuit. Also, a bigger and less elastic boot (i.e. not a tight neoprene creek shoe) will compress the socks less.
 
They have always worked great for me! And they still do, doing farm work (inside 2 pairs of socks and tall rubber muck boots). :)

As I said, my boots are 2 sizes too big for me on purpose! They're very roomy.
 
I will need to put the drysuit gaskets OVER the mittens, I learned on Saturday, if I'm to keep my hands dry!
Without a 'dresser' I don't think you'll be able to pull that 2nd drysuit gasket over a mitten cuff using your free hand wearing the mitten.

Anyway, I don't think that putting your mittens under the gasket would be a good idea - even a slight leak at the wrist can be a bit of a problem. One day I (unknowingly) left a very small bit of my long sleeve undershirt sticking out from the wrist gasket. After an hour or two of paddling I could sense a puddle in the elbow of the drysuit, and the entire sleeve of my under layers was soaked on that side.... and that was just from drips from my gloves and paddle shaft.
 
. I was PERFECTLY WARM except for my feet. I would have been too hot wearing all that stuff, once I got going paddling!

People vary a great deal in 'heat production' and 'insulation', and each of us has definite ideas about what's comfortable for us.
One person's 'overheating' can be another's 'working up a comfortable sweat', etc...

It is known that even for people with 'normal circulation' to the extremities - not hindered by Raynauds, previous frostnip, ice climbing/cold hands, etc. - that a warmer 'core' will allow increased blood flow to the hands and feet. The old saying:" If your hands are cold, put on a warmer hat" did have some merit.

One thing to keep in mind is that there is very little evaporative cooling going on inside a drysuit - so 'damp layers' which would be dangerous in a hiking/climbing situation aren't such a problem when wearing a drysuit. The downside is that if you are getting hyperthermic, it's difficult to cool down (though easy if you roll or jump in the cool water).
And, if it is cool and windy, and you are comfortably warm but damp, don't open up the drysuit unless you have dry clothes handy.

The 'sweaty/uncomfortable' discussion is ongoing when vapor barriers are discussed....each person is different.
 
They have always worked great for me! And they still do, doing farm work (inside 2 pairs of socks and tall rubber muck boots). :) As I said, my boots are 2 sizes too big for me on purpose! They're very roomy.
That sounds like you have plenty of room. Constriction by the boot is not the issue. If you have room for voluminous muck boots underdecks, stick with them. I assume they must fall off in a swim, yes? Otherwise, fine.
 
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