Bears

[DarrenM]

I can't imagine anyone outrunning something with feet this big:

Holy SH*t!!!!

 

[Mark_Schilling]

I'm with MikeC on this one. Sure, maybe grizzlies are more aggressive than blacks; so be it. But the natives lived alongside both grizzlies and blacks for how many years without getting annihilated, so as long as we practice a bit of respect and care, I can't see that anything should really change. I think we humans tend to have too much of this 'us or them' attitude - we've all coexisted on this planet for quite a while now, so I can't see any good reason that it can't continue. While I agree that it's dangerous for all concerned when a bear gets 'habituated', I think it's just as tragic when we kill one of them as it is when they kill one of us. They probably have better reason than we do, after all - they're just trying to survive, but we seem to want to take over the world and dominate everything in our paths.

What does concern me is the fact that the grizzlies have suddenly started to venture over to areas where they never have before. We have to ask why they'd do that, and I think that it's quite reasonable to assume that it's because of something we've done - either by forcing them out of their regular habitats with our expanding cities and towns, or by destroying or seriously crippling their regular source of food. Perhaps there's a direct correlation there (ie overfishing) or maybe it's indirect (ie global warming leading to all sorts of things that trickle down to the bear's habitat in some other way) but to me, at least, it seems pretty unlikely that the bears have just decided to go for a swim over here for the first time ever.

 

[Dan_Millsip]

ahhhh just what the world needed, some more gun-totin' trigger happy yahoos.

:roll:

Be careful who you slight there -- those "gun-totin' yahoos" paved the way for you to be able to say such things.

all it means is that a little more common sense and basic bear safety should be practiced. it never ceases to amaze me how panicky people get when they hear or read the word "grizzly"

I don't see anyone getting panicky anywhere in this discussion. What the occupation of grizzlies on the Island means is that you're going to have to be a LOT more careful and aware out in the wilderness because now there's a creature that is a lot meaner, a lot bigger, a lot smarter, a lot more aggresive, and way less afraid of humans than any other creature currently on the Island. I don't think reducing that down to a casual attitude is a wise thing to do.

*****

 

[Mark_Schilling]

...now there's a creature that is a lot meaner, a lot bigger... a lot more aggresive, and way less afraid of humans than any other creature currently on the Island.

Dan, you haven't been to Youbou in a while, have you? :lol:

 

[Ken B]

...now there's a creature that is a lot meaner, a lot bigger... a lot more aggresive, and way less afraid of humans than any other creature currently on the Island.

Dan, you haven't been to Youbou in a while, have you? :lol:

...how about downtown Victoria or Granville St./Vancouver in the summer (see panhandlers)!...now THAT is aggressive! :roll:

 

[Dan_Millsip]

What does concern me is the fact that the grizzlies have suddenly started to venture over to areas where they never have before. We have to ask why they'd do that, and I think that it's quite reasonable to assume that it's because of something we've done - either by forcing them out of their regular habitats with our expanding cities and towns, or by destroying or seriously crippling their regular source of food.

Perhaps the reason is because people aren't in their way anymore. If you consider all the islands in the archipelagos between the mainland and the Island have historically been occupied by first nations or homesteaders but over the past several years have had fewer and fewer human occupants. In the Broughton's, I learned that the number of people inhabitating the islands has reduced from several hundred people to roughly 30 over the last twenty or so years. Historically, because the islands have been inhabited with people, it could provide reason why bears have avoided them.

There are many other natural reasons why grizzlies are now only beginning to be seen on the Island -- it's not necessarily a result of human interference.

*****

 

[oldsailor]

There are many other natural reasons why grizzlies are now only beginning to be seen on the Island -- it's not necessarily a result of human interference.

I agree that 50 years ago there were many more people living in the "outback" than now. It's quite possible that it's the very lack of human interference that is helping them decide to migrate into areas that had been empty of grizzly bears in the past. Overpopulation of the bears themselves in the prime mainland bear habitat would encourage younger bears to seek new territory.

Go west, young ursus horribilis. And stay away from muthah-ships.

Craig

 

[ken_vandeburgt]

it never ceases to amaze me how panicky people get when they hear or read the word "grizzly"

Obviously you are someone who has never been charged at by a Grizzly.

When it happens it's brown trousers time.

I now own a can of bear spray...

I prescribe to the 'Traditional'...'Old School'...'Tried and True' method of avoiding a confrontation with Bears...
Just make sure you can outrun the slowest person in the group!

This works unless the slowest person you are with is someone you kinda sorta like. I wouldn't kayak (or hike) with someone I didn't like. I'd rather take my chances with the bears.

I'm kind of reluctant to share the experience. I saw the bears, a sow with two cubs, after I had already gotten too close. I turned and walked back the way I had come as quickly as I could. I passed my hiking friend and immediately decided that I couldn't live with myself if I kept going and she didn't survive. I'm surprised I was still that coherent in my thinking because I wanted nothing more but to keep on going. I turned around and stood beside her. The bear charged once, turned around, saw her cubs bounding up towards us, turned again and charged a second time before heading off to chase her cubs back.

I was amazed at how quickly the three then ran up a hill and disappeared.

One thing about being in bear country is that you really need to evaluate realistically what you are going to do in the event of a bear encounter.

 

[mikec]

nope, but i have been charged by black bears 3 times. a bear is a bear is a bear, and it all boils down to simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

as for being flippant Dan-O, statistically speaking we should all be FAR more afraid of our fellow drivers on the road 24/7 than the risk of a bear encounter going wrong. it's all relative.

i've sat on a beach at Point Adolphus in Alaska, sipping my early morning coffee while watching humpbacks bubble-netting not 25 yards offshore right in front of my camp site.

all of a sudden we hear a rustling in the bushes about 30 feet behind us. i turned around, saw a grizzly munching on salal berries, and he stopped momentarily to sniff the air. he went right back to eating his berries and didn't so much as peak at us. we just went back to drinking our coffee and watching the show the whales put on., with nary a care in the world.

was it a little nerve racking? sure, it can be, if you don't have an understanding of basic animal behaviour.

i highly recommend the book- "BackCountry Bear Basics" and for anyone worried about bear encounters, do some research and learn more about the animals. you'll find that many bear fears are completely irrational (much like sharks, wolves, we could go on...)

guns don't equal protection, knowledge does.

 

[Monster]

I'd love to see your trip reports or photo galleries Mike, do you have something online? Those sound like interesting trips and if the griz was only 30 feet behind you with whales 25 yards off shore in front of you, and all while your sipping coffee on the beach, I bet you got some pretty neat shots.

 

[Dan_Millsip]

as for being flippant Dan-O, statistically speaking we should all be FAR more afraid of our fellow drivers on the road 24/7 than the risk of a bear encounter going wrong. it's all relative.

Stastistically speaking, there are a lot more people driving than out in the bush. If you're out in the bush frequently, you're bound to see a bear at some point. I've driven most of my life without being hit by anyone in a car. All I'm saying is the presence of grizzlies changes some of the dynamic of being out in the wilderness and it would be prudent to be prepared (educated, as you mention, and/or armed as others have mentioned) and more alert than you might normally be -- especially those of us who travel in the outdoors with children.

My apologies if I misunderstood, but I got the impression from your comments that you were being a bit nonchalant about the whole thing.

*****

 

[Doug_Lloyd]

ahhhh just what the world needed, some more gun-totin' trigger happy yahoos.

didn't know the good'ol boy mentality had made it to BC

:roll:

Be careful who you slight there -- those "good 'ol boys" paved the way for you to be able to say such things.

all it means is that a little more common sense and basic bear safety should be practiced. it never ceases to amaze me how panicky people get when they hear or read the word "grizzly"

I don't see anyone getting panicky anywhere in this discussion. What the occupation of grizzlies on the Island means is that you're going to have to be a LOT more careful and aware out in the wilderness because now there's a creature that is a lot meaner, a lot bigger, a lot smarter, a lot more aggresive, and way less afraid of humans than any other creature currently on the Island. I don't think reducing that down to a casual attitude is a wise thing to do.

*****

Typically I'm extra careful once north of P. Hardy, at least, anyway. There's a high concentration of black bear so I hang my food quicker, make more noise on trails, cook away from camp, etc. On the central coast with the obvious grizzlies abounding, I'm probably only a bit more cautious. If I smell carrion, I get out quick. Actually, there's been some bizzare black bear attacks on V. Island this year.

Part of being a good kayaker involves research. I usually ask locals or hunters if there's anything in particular with wildlife for a given location and time of year. Grizzlies usually aren't on the coast in eary spring yet, for example, still eating deeper inland.

Some years the central coast grizzlies have less food are are known to be a bit more bad tempered. Some of the inlet grizzlies have taut faces and look meaner.

I think I'd carry a gun in polar bear country though. Stainless steel.

In the end, I'm gonna get eaten anyway - maybe even become burried carrion for a bit. RIP. Rest in pieces. Eat'n by bears if I'm camping stupidly. Crabs if I'm inprudent on the sea (or maybe I'll float around for a while in the N. Pacific Gyre, a resting spot for seagulls until the PFD rots off). Rugby players if my plane crashes in the Andes. And eventually, worms.

Doug L (whose mostly being eaten up by overwork these days - there you go, straight to the grave from my desk)

 

[Dan_Millsip]

Doug, you absolutely crack me up.

*****

 

[Astoriadave]

Yeah, I agree Doug will evenutally get eaten up ... and I am NOT wondering how he will taste!

 

[mikec]

I'd love to see your trip reports or photo galleries Mike, do you have something online? Those sound like interesting trips and if the griz was only 30 feet behind you with whales 25 yards off shore in front of you, and all while your sipping coffee on the beach, I bet you got some pretty neat shots.

let me dig around to see which photos i can scan and post. i tend not to take photos on trips, i have a pretty good camera in my mind that retains images better than any picture might.

THAT morning was one of those once in a lifetime "i can't believe this is happening" moments. I was on a research trip many years ago as an assistant helping a marine biologist friend of mine who was studying Humpback behaviour in the Icy Straights area aka Humpback heaven.

i've had the pleasure of helping her on an arctic wolf study in Hudson Bay as well as loads of Minke whale research in the St-Lawrence, running around photo id'ing all day long for 3 months in a row, as well as collecting whale poo samples...

 

[Monster]

yes please, that is really too bad about not being not into taking pictures. Few people get the opportunity to see some of these things and while my memory is pretty good too (for now), that doesn't help me share with others as well as a picture can. This coming from someone who loves still photography..

 

[Ken B]

Anyone else seen The Grizzly Man movie/documentary?
Timothy Treadwell lived among the Alaskan Grizz for 13 seasons before he was killed and eaten by one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogYDUmIigw0

What a NUTBAR!
Like no one thought that might happen...

Awareness, caution, respect, knowledge, and an understanding of potential problems and how to react is all one can do.
Most important...don't go looking for contact in the wild.
Professional Tours not withstanding...

 

[stevenf]

Great movie. I felt sorry for his girlfriend and the bear, but not for him. I just rewatched that amazing Grizzly fight last night.

 

[Monster]

I think it was fairly clear Timothy Treadwell was suffering a particular bad bout of a bi-polar disorder and it was probably slowly developing throughout his adult life. When the time came where sound judgment completely abandoned him he was just too far away from anyone who could get him the proper help (medication) he badly needed. I thought it was a pretty sad story myself, and clearly he was not in such a dire state of mind for most of his life where he managed to function in society quite normally. Personally I dont think the narrator of that documentary did Timothy or his family any favors in his portrayal however, nutbar... no. Very sick at the time of his death... yes.

 

[oldsailor]

I have to rise to Treadwell's defense a bit here. I agree that the last documentary was somewhat unkind to him. But earlier documentaries did not portray him as such a nutcase and, in fact, they tended to show that he did have a way with these creatures. Enough of a way to allow him to live among them for 13 seasons without serious harm.

There was also quite a bit of evidence that some bears were drawn to him in some sort of eerie kinship; especially those that were born after his first appearance among them and so had grown up with a human in their midst.

And finally, there is even some evidence that Treadwell was right in his insistence that Alaskan professional guides were assisting hunters in taking grizzlies illegally in that area. Early documentaries show float planes leaving in a hurry once they realized someone was video taping their activities. Treadwell said that the guides didn't want to be recognized.

He really did march to a different drummer and, as Monster says, he probably had a difficult time living in society. I'm not at all sure he was a nutcase, though. Or even seriously disturbed. Obsessed? Obviously. But I can certainly identify with obsession.

Treadwell did what he thought he could do and at the very least did shine a bright light on the relationship between grizzly bears and hunters in Alaska. Don't they have a goverrnor who hunts wolves from a helicopter?

His biggest failure was in not recognizing that the bear that finally killed them was lots more dangerous than he thought it was. That last documentary showed that he was clearly afraid of that bear. Even if he had recognized the danger I'm not sure there was much he could have done (although shipping his girlfriend out might have been a good first step).

The amazing thing to me was that he succeeded so long and that only one clearly deranged bear was his undoing. The rest seemed to at least tolerate him and a few looked very much as though they liked him.

Craig