building a cedar strip kayak

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by rocknrony39, Mar 7, 2015.

  1. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    I'm new to this site. Looks kinda cool. I have built 2 cedar strip kayaks over the winter. I'm almost ready to start fiberglassing.
    This nice weather has me eager to finish. I have done a lot of canoeing, when I was young, but never have I been in a kayak. Always wanted one. My dream is to get some experience here in the shuswap, then to the coast, to kayak with the whales.
     
  2. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    Nice work!
    Which design are the boats? Or are the two different designs?
     
  3. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    The dark one is Georgian Bay 17 ft.
    the other is the Endeavour 17ft
     
  4. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    Have you visited kayakforum.com? Lots of info there, as well as many accomplished builders.
    Of course, your pictures and comments here will be very welcome as well! :big_thumb

    If you can find experienced kayakers or instructors in your area, you can get some good hints on outfitting your boats.
    A lot of the 'kayak building' sites online show boats without essential safety features like end toggles and deck lines. Also, the coaming shape and arrangement of seat, footpegs and thigh padding make a huge difference in 'usability'. An experienced paddler can be a huge help with advice. I know this from experience - I built my first kayak before I had any kayaking knowledge, coming from a canoe & sail background, and I shake my head when I look at pictures of that boat now.
    (And, of course, as you get closer to launch day, some lessons would be an excellent idea.)
     
  5. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    I agree John. There's a lot to learn. I plan on taking a few courses before I do any big journeys.
     
  6. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    Sun shining, time to open the garage, and start sanding.
     
  7. GeroV

    GeroV Paddler

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    Beautiful boats - looks like you've done some very fine work there. Of course I think we'd all like to see some more pictures of the kayaks with some of the details such as the pattern on the side and other aspects.

    I'll second John's comment about some things to add to your boat - I built an S&G Shearwater 17 and the kit did not come with deck lines. Been out three times in it, and now that spring is coming and I'm going to be heading out into more open water, I've ordered the line and will be installing it before my next outing. I also became aware of the utility of deck lines when I learned solo re-entry techniques at a pool session this past weekend.

    Good luck with the finishing
    Gero
     
  8. wymbly1971

    wymbly1971 New Member

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    ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!

    More pics!!

    ......and while you're in the mood for building such beauties (I'd sure like one of those)

    Thanks for sharing
     
  9. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    Thanks guys.still waiting for warm weather to start fiberglassing.
     
  10. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    Well finally starting to fiberglass. Everything went well except, you can still see webbing. Not sure what to do. Might try to sand down and see if I can soak it with more resin.
     
  11. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    Hard to tell without seeing. Photos?
     
  12. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    If the glass (webbing?) Is not translucent, you will have to patch those areas, removing the glass by sanding or scraping, to the wood, fairing a bit onto clear sections. Then lay on fresh glass, overlapping onto solid glass a bit. Those areas where the weave has open areas are not protecting the wood. In use, water will enter, and rot the wood.

    Last time the glass did not wet out. Reexamine your technique to figure out why. Likely the resin was beginning to thicken in the mixing pot, and you continued to apply it. It is critical to roughly distribute the resin from the pot ASAP using a plastic squeegee to prevent it from thickening prematurely. Then come back with the squeegee and spread it uniformly, with a final pass pressing harder to pull excess resin out, discarding the excess resin into a shoebox or similar waste container. Probably good idea to practice this on some scrap pywood or similar to get it down.

    When you go back to work on the boats, if the resin thickens, get rid of it! As it cures, it heats up which accelerates the cure, making it thicken even more quickly. Getting ALL the resin out of the pot ASAP increases its surface area, so the heat generated in curing can dissipate, preventing premature thickening. I usually invert the mixing container onto a section not wetted out yet, and then squeegee what runs out head of the next batch.

    You are likely facing a good deal of work. However, once fixed, the boat will be perfect, the patches will only be visible to you, and the glass job will protect it forever.
     
  13. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    What Dave said...
    Also- what resin and glass are you using?
    Whats the shop temperature?
     
  14. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Rock,

    This link is a definitive reference for fiberglassing, whether using WEST system resin or other brands. I differ only in that I never use a brush to apply resin on a hull or deck. Small jobs, yes. The pour and squeegee method described two messages above, earlier, works well everywhere except vertical surfaces, where I use a roller to trap resin as I pour, working my way up, with added passes of fhe roller to distribute. Then squeegee.

    http://www.westsystem.com/ss/fiberglass ... trip-hull/
     
  15. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    I have 15 yes experience with fiberglass. First time with epoxy resin. Everything went well. Resin didn't start to harden on me,and soaked it with resin. I got the roll of glass with the wood when I bought it. Maybe it got damp? Or maybe didn't let it sit long enough, before squeegee? But the hole surface is the same.
     
  16. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    The pics help - thanks!
    Has the surface been sanded?
    In the first pic, is the 'different' color what you saw after the epoxy cured, or has part been sanded?

    If you wet the surface with alcohol, does it change the appearance?

    You are right about dampening glass being a problem - do you suspect that?
     
  17. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Boy, I am not sure what we are seeing. Those large white areas have not been sanded? It appears the glass did not wet out well at all. Every one of those white spots is a potential water entry site, I think. Adding resin now will not help. Removing that much glass will be a huge job. Buckets of time with a carbide scraper and a right angle grinder.

    Unless the glass has been contaminated, I don't see how this could happen.

    Well, the pinholes could come from degassing from the wood, if the hull was cold at the beginning of the job, and warmed as it cured. It is SOP with glass or resin on nonencapsulated wood to preheat overnight to a temperature somewhat above the temperature at which you intend to work. Then, when finished glassing, allow the shop to cool overnight. That sucks resin back into the hull, sealing any incipient pinholes.

    Sizing for polyester resin, maybe, instead of epoxy?

    I am baffled.
     
  18. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    I recall that folks have used a heat gun to lift off recently epoxied glass.
    My suggestion would be to post those pics at kayakforum.com in the 'Building' forum and get some more input.
    Perhaps Rod Tait will jump in here with some expert eyes....
    Like Dave, I'm perplexed, but I'm not sure what I'm looking at in the pics.

    With that complex (and attractive) stripping pattern, anything except an excellent glass and varnish job will be a shame.
     
  19. rocknrony39

    rocknrony39 New Member

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    The fiberglass is 100% bonded to the wood. The big white patch is a shadow. You see fine webbing 100% everywere. I figure the resin hardened before it fully saturaded, or the glass itself. I will know when I do the inside.
     
  20. Roy222

    Roy222 Paddler

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    Unless you plan on painting the hull-- strip it now

    If the glass did not get saturated there is no fixing it.
    You might of over squeezed the glass and the white we see is micro bubbles, but probably not.
    If you continue to get the same results on the inside of the hull, I would suspect that there is something wrong with the epoxy or the mix ratio.
    Maybe you washed off "blush" before the epoxy was fully cured. If so, there is a chance that another coat of epoxy will clear it.


    Roy