can you do the 'roll'?

Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by ruthk, Jun 6, 2007.

?

have u mastered the art of the rollover?

  1. oh yeh, got it on my first try!

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  2. no, still can't do it!

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  3. haven't tried it yet, but plan to soon

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  1. AM

    AM Paddler

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    I'm in the midst of reading All the Way Round, an account by Stuart Trueman of his 2010 circumnavigation of Australia. I'm at the halfway point of his journey and he's already had to roll several times. Does that count as "serious"?
     
  2. Mike_Jackson

    Mike_Jackson Paddler

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    I don't think I would go into a tiderace like Surge Narrows or Baynes, play in surf or big wind/waves without a good roll. I have never rolled on an expedition trip, but then I have never capsized on one either... I try to avoid capsize fostering conditions when on an expedition. That said, rolling has made me more comfortable in my boat and has given me better bracing skills.
    Mostly though, rolling is fun and is something more to learn about while kayaking!
     
  3. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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    This implies that one might encounter a wave that is roughly double the significant wave height.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significant_wave_height

    In open waters, the occasional wave may be twice that of the surrounding sea.
    http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/marine/faq.htm

    Generally, it is assumed that individual wave heights can be described using a Rayleigh distribution.
    Example: Significant Wave Height = 10 ft
    1 in 10 waves will be larger than 11 ft
    1 in 100 waves will be larger than 16 ft
    1 in 1000 waves will larger than 19 ft
    There are occasional reports of "rogue" waves of an even greater ratio
    Therefore, assuming a wave period of 8 seconds, for a significant wave height of 10 feet, a wave 19 feet or higher will occur every 8,000 seconds (2.2 hours).
    ibid

    Highest waves may be more than twice forecast values.
    http://weather.gc.ca/marine/marine_bull ... qcn23.cwvr

    If I'm out in 4 foot seas and get knocked over by an 8 footer, I'll be paddling again in no time.
     
  4. scott_f

    scott_f Paddler

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    Outsider, you cannot be serious. To flippantly dismiss the most valuable self rescue tool is either extreme ignorance, or trolling.
     
  5. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    Well he hopefully is being a bit flippant, but the topic 'can one do the roll?' does brings up the relevant issue that many cannot roll and that a roll is not necessary - as one is fairly safe if other self rescues or backups are able to be utilized.

    There are certainly plenty of paddlers here and way out there that do not know how to roll and yet are heavily experienced and safe paddlers. And conversely there are many (that I've seen also) paddlers who have great rolls that are useless when the chips are down.

    But if you do have a useable roll, then horizons open to you that were not available before - even if you're the most pathetic paddler in the world - because dumping doesn't matter any more.
     
  6. drahcir

    drahcir Paddler

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    In my 3rd year as a septuagenarian, I am learning a laugh-proof roll, maybe bomb-proof another (future) year. At this point, it is unlikely that I could roll up after an unplanned capsize in dire circumstances.

    Nevertheless there are benefits to my efforts. In particular, I am more comfortable capsizing and no longer lose my paddle (formerly a frequent occurrence) and after a wet exit I am no longer disoriented. Both of these results make a subsequent self- or assisted-rescue safer and more likely to be successful. My braces have also improved.

    There seems to be no downside. If I were younger, maybe it would make me more likely to take risks e.g. choose to paddle in conditions that are beyond my skill set. But at my age I remain very conservative in my trip choices. And as someone has already mentioned; it is fun.
     
  7. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Outsider and I fall into the class of paddler where old age and treachery are a more reliable skillset than youth and skill. :wink: I'll endorse his style of attacking long distance, multiday paddling, while enjoying from my armchair the exploits of the more athletic men and women who incorporate rougher seas and taller surf into their adventures.

    Both approaches are good.

    BTW, nonrollers can, and should, develop and use deft, quick bracing skills. For us, those weapons are critical, especially if we want to enjoy rough water rather than fear it. Kudos to drahcir for dipping his toes into the roller gene pool, as well. He's got three or four years on me!
     
  8. explorer777

    explorer777 Paddler

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    Re:

    lol =oD

    I pulled off my roll successfully in my PC L2 course but since then I've not had much luck with it because I haven't been practicing it =/ Plus I seem to have developed a chronic shoulder problem in my right so I can't really practice a roll because it is almost certain to aggravate my shoulder problem...
     
  9. BluenosePacific

    BluenosePacific Paddler

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    Re:

    Which half?
     
  10. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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    Here's a sculling roll, which is my go to roll at Surge.
    It's a great roll for whirlpools and confusing currents.

    [shortyoutube]http://youtu.be/teISh_WyHE4[/shortyoutube]
    Video by M. Ramsay.

    Apologies for the video quality.
    The lack of sun didn't help, and it looks like the quality was degraded a bit by youtube.

    I'm willing to go back and reshoot to get better footage ;-)
     
  11. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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    Rolling footage from Surge Narrows
    during a day when we compared euro & greenland paddles.
    It was obvious that the GP requires much better boat control.

    [shortyoutube]http://youtu.be/Je3t3asx3Ag[/shortyoutube]

    Even a roll that isn't 100% can work well if you are persistent.

    Video by M. Ramsey
    Thank you, paddlers!
     
  12. AM

    AM Paddler

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    Nootka, that is such a fun video! We need more like that: too many rolling videos are in calm conditions, so perhaps we expect things to be perfect all the time.

    Okay, you've emboldened me to share a video that I've only shown a few others. I have clips of my pool rolls, and they are certainly useful in helping me fine-tune the mechanics, but with this one I wanted to analyze my rolls in the real world. I was a little surprised at how messy these looked. Not at all the clean form that I aim for in the pool. But clean pool form is the basis of real world rolls, and I now accept that there will always be a difference between my practice rolls and my real ones.

    That said, I found that watching myself rolling for real gave me a lot of motivation to keep going to the pool to work on clean technique. And watching my reliance on back finishing sweep rolls gave me the motivation to improve my forward finishing rolls.

    [shortyoutube]http://youtu.be/By9zMg3Sfgs[/shortyoutube]

    Cheers,
    Andrew
     
  13. BluenosePacific

    BluenosePacific Paddler

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    I love it.
    Especially the audio!
    Thanks for that AM.
     
  14. Layback

    Layback Paddler

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    Re: Re:


    I am hesitant about commenting on your roll based solely on what you have stated here. However, I will anyway. :mrgreen:

    Even doing a C to C roll, the hips and legs should be a strong element making things happen. The arms should not be used to heave yourself back to the upright position.

    I've had shoulder and back issues that have slowed down my rolling efforts. But, I have stuck with it. As has been pointed out by many others, once you develop a good roll, the skills gained will likely mean you won't need it. Personally, I think my bracing has improved as I figured out the roll.

    Hey, maybe you should just try rolling up on your left side!
     
  15. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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  16. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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  17. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFKdIeplHTU[/youtube]
     
  18. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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  19. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

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    The problem with this poll is that it doesn't distinguish between those who can do a roll in a little plastic boat in a swimming pool and those who can do it in the ocean, in mean water, when it would actually matter. I think there's a difference, eh?

    Just saying.

    Outsider
     
  20. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Of course there's a difference. Would you object to a poll that asked "Are you a kayaker? Yes/No"? There is also a difference between paddling in a calm lake or even moderate conditions and paddling in 30kn winds and huge swells.

    No need to complicate things that much, it's just a question.