can you do the 'roll'?

Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by ruthk, Jun 6, 2007.

?

have u mastered the art of the rollover?

  1. oh yeh, got it on my first try!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. no, still can't do it!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. haven't tried it yet, but plan to soon

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    Burnaby BC
    I don't think anyone here qualifies to your definition of serious tripping. We can't even paddle on a serious trip, let alone roll. Pretty sure you're in a level all your own.
     
  2. nootka

    nootka Paddler

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,534
    Location:
    Campbell River
    I bet being dense is a big handicap for rolling.
     
  3. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Hey Nootka,

    No need to be rude. It won't shut me up and only exposes your ignorance. I'm not dense.

    My dad always said that, by definition, all questions are stupid questions.

    I'll provide you with a clear explanation about how to determine if you are on a 'serious trip' and how to tell if a roll 'saved' you.

    You obviously don't know.

    Too busy right now for you. Stay tuned.

    Outsider
     
  4. pawsplus

    pawsplus Paddler

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2015
    Messages:
    1,060
    Location:
    Landlocked in Tennessee
    You know, Outsider, if you don't want to learn to roll--don't. No one cares. But don't criticize others who do think it's important. I don't have a roll yet, either, and who knows--maybe I'll never get one. But I'll keep trying to learn, because any attempt to improve safety is smart and prudent.

    To suggest that those who think having a roll increases safety are somehow wasting their time reflects poorly on YOU, not on them. Pretty clearly, the majority of posters here would agree with me there.
     
  5. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    Burnaby BC
    Nah, it's cool, we got it. It needs to be at least a day's paddle away from a village. On the West Coast of Vancouver Island or it doesn't count. More than 7 nights. Solo and unassisted, of course. Throw rocks at wolves at least once, bonus points if you hit one. But otherwise do not disturb nature or you're disqualified. Kayak needs at least 50lbs of gear, with at least 1/4 of that divided between the front and rear decks. Bonus points if you have a fishing line dangling from the stern at all times.

    Of course I forgot the most important thing - trip needs to be made for official scientific research purposes or otherwise authorized by a "serious" organization.
     
  6. nootka

    nootka Paddler

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,534
    Location:
    Campbell River
    ^ good summary

    but a "serious" trip has to be long enough time-wise that you have lots of days to sit on the beach in case of offshore 20 knot winds.
     
  7. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    9,305
    Location:
    Beautiful BC
    Serious trip: anything that leaves the beach.
     
  8. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    It seems strange to me that asking a simple question makes everyone so seriously defensive.

    Put downs and more questions don't answer my question.

    What's the problem with a simple answer to a simple question?

    I can't see how it could be offensive.

    It's not about me or how or where I paddle Pawsplus.

    It's just a simple question.

    Outsider
     
  9. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Also,

    For those who don't do this or know anything about it, a 'serious trip', for example, is one that takes place on the outer coast of Vancouver Island or such places as the Central Coast. It includes a fully loaded expedition kayak on a multi-day trip in exposed water the whole time.
    It also includes experienced and adventurous paddlers.

    This is the answer to the question that seems to have been posed once or twice and not necessarily in a friendly manner.

    However, I an sure that most people can picture what type of trip I am talking about, eh?

    And further more,

    'How do you know if you have been saved by a roll' is also another question that has been posed.

    Try this on.

    Two years ago my buddy and I (yes I do have buddies) paddled from Fair Harbour in Kyuquot Sound down in front of Nootka Island to Nootka Sound.
    This is a highly exposed trip.
    Almost all landings require some ability to get ashore on beaches that are surfy. (I know that's not a word but describes the scene).

    At one point along this trip we encountered significant swell in shallow water surround by rocks at low tide. This means, for those who don't know, big waves that can break far off shore and surprise you with the size of them when all the previous ones you have taken care to watch seem to make it reasonable to paddle through the area.

    Rocks that did not appear during the 'watch' period did appear as we found ourselves in the middle of the turmoil.

    My buddy was lifted very high on top of a breaking wave far off shore and surround by submerged rocks and rocks that were huge and fully exposed when the wave passed.

    I tend to paddle further out in such circumstances and was safe to watch what went down.

    As I watched, I expected that he might capsize after riding the top of a big wave that broke around him. He nosed dived down the back of the wave. Seemed like he was going vertical.

    There are two things that could have happened here.

    If he had capsized, which seemed likely, he had two options, roll out of it as soon as it happened and paddle further out where the scene was more safe.

    On the other hand, if he did not know how to roll or could not successfully role in such a situation, he would have had to do a wet exit and re-entry and then pump out the hatch.
    One way takes only a few seconds; the roll.
    The other takes much longer and, for sure, would have put him on top of the rocks where he would be seriously mangled if he survived at all.

    He knew that a roll would have saved him. We both knew that. The wet exit would not.

    This is one way to tell if you would have been saved by a roll.

    No need to criticize for doing something stupid or being in a place that we should have known was possibly not safe. We are experienced and know our stuff. Sometimes, unlike some of you guys, you can't know it all :)

    Anybody have a similar story to tell?

    This is still my 'reasonable' question.

    Outsider
     
  10. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Outsider,

    Ah, OK, while I was typing a response, you did this: I'll provide you with a clear explanation about how to determine if you are on a 'serious trip' and how to tell if a roll 'saved' you.

    I like your example. And I agree. Being able to roll saved your partner's bacon.

    Doesn't that prove the value of having a roll, if attempting a serious trip?
     
  11. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    9,305
    Location:
    Beautiful BC
    Outsider, you seem to have the answer to your question(s) before you ask them -- or at least a preconceived expectation of what is acceptable to you. Your question in this thread was answered but because it wasn't the answer you were looking (or hoping) to get you continuously tell others that your question has not been answered (apparently to your satisfaction).

    ALL trips that leave a beach are "serious" and have the potential to be life threatening. The ability to roll can save your life, whether you capsize in benign conditions or in turbulent seas, all capsizes have the potential to end drastically.

    Honestly, I'm not at all sure what the point or value of your question is here. Nor am I sure why other people's opinions in this thread are not acceptable to you or why you seem to need to ridicule those who don't agree with your comments.

    There's a lot of learning to be had from the contributors of this forum (and their vast levels of experience) -– it might do well to weigh the responses you get carefully before discounting them.
     
  12. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Hey Dan,

    Who has answered the question?

    The question was 'Who, on a serious trip, has been saved by a roll.

    Point out the answers to this question. I may have missed them.

    I am not ridiculing anyone.

    If I am called 'dense', who is being ridiculed?

    If my 'serious trip' is called 'staying on a beach for 10 days', who is being ridiculed?

    I did not answer my own question. I just want to know who can.

    I am not interested in my question being 'questioned'. What's that about?
    I don't understand why people who do not have an answer to such a simple question, feel obliged to comment on it. It's not directed toward these people.

    Not a single person has described how a roll saved them. Period.

    You are incorrect in saying otherwise.

    Outsider
     
  13. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Messages:
    9,305
    Location:
    Beautiful BC
    Nootka answered your question. Seriously, you seem to be looking for a very, very specific answer to your question -- so you may have to wait for the absolutely right person to reply -- that may take some time until/if that person reads this discussion. In the meanwhile, how about showing a bit of patience with those who are perhaps not fully understanding the wording or the intent of your question?
     
  14. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Thanks Dan,

    You are right. I am looking for a specific answer. One similar to the scenario I described on the trip 2 years ago with my buddy.
    And yes, I am looking for a specific person or persons
    This has been a 'standing' question for about a year now.
    I would like it to remain standing and alive.
    I don't believe that my buddy and I are the only ones who have discovered the value of a roll in saving oneself.

    I would also like to expand on what you told me some time ago about what is being posted.

    You said 'if you don't like what is being posted, you are not obliged to read it' or something to that effect.

    If people don't like what I have to say, they can stop reading my posts and stop responding to them.

    No one requires them to click on my posts, read my opinions or respond to them at all.

    There are lots of other innocuous topics floating around on this site for everyone to click on and read.
    Ignore me if you don't like what I have to say.

    I express my opinions freely, exactly as others do. It's a right in this country. They have there topics and I have mine.
    They can just read something else that suits them better.

    Outsider
     
  15. nootka

    nootka Paddler

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Messages:
    1,534
    Location:
    Campbell River
    Outsider, Sep 04, 2015
    Outsider, Sep 28, 2014
    Why the inconsistency?

    If you don't think Seymour Narrows is serious, I can arrange an opportunity for you to change your mind. :p
     
  16. scott_f

    scott_f Paddler

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    163
    Location:
    Victoria
    You are just being obtuse. Everyone here has expressed the value of a roll.
    Personally I just think you are trolling.