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CLC Kayak Sail Rig build

I was able to continue my sea trials today as we had some good wind here. That was the good part. The bad happened on the water. I got out on the water and got both sails up. I noticed immediately that it was very hard to keep my rudder pointed the way I wanted using the "gas pedal" style steering. I finally got good control and was on a good close reach for about a minute when I hear a pop and lost steering control.

The pop was one of the control cables coming loose from the foot pedals. I immediately lowered the sails and paddled back into shore. I have come to the conclusion that using the cable rudder setup just isn't going to work so I will build a rudder with a tiller set up that I will steer by hand.

My question to you involves this new rudder. Will it be more effective if I make it wider? By wider I don't mean the thickness. The rudder I am using now has about 10 inches (length) of the blade in the water. It is about 6 inches wide. Would something much bigger give me better control? Any of you knowledgeable sailors have any suggestions?
 
It was a part of the footbrace itself that failed. I think the stress caused by the greater surface area of my custom rudder was just too much. It seems like the footbrace will be easy to fix it just needs to come out of the boat first.
 
keabird said:
My question to you involves this new rudder. Will it be more effective if I make it wider? By wider I don't mean the thickness. The rudder I am using now has about 10 inches (length) of the blade in the water. It is about 6 inches wide. Would something much bigger give me better control? Any of you knowledgeable sailors have any suggestions?

Yes. The basic idea for boats that are steared by rudder is that as you increase the amount of water passing over the rudder you can decrease the size. Hence power boats tend to have a small rudder right behind the prop. the prop pushes a lot of water past the rudder and gives stearage. Sailboats use a much larger rudder as the water is passing by it much slower. So increasing the depth (what I think you are calling width) should give you more stearage. There is probably a formula for all this out there for this somewhere...

ws
 
What I am calling the width is the for and aft measurement of the rudder. The length is the distance the rudder sticks into the water. So from what Woodensoul says I can keep the "length" the same and increase the depth (width) and I will get a more effective rudder. Is this correct?
 
Yes. (think I understand what you are saying, width is x axis length is y axis, just to phrase this differently). As you increase the dimensions you will generate more force on it, so design accordingly...
 
The dimensions won't be that much bigger than the rudder I was using before. Also, I have plans to use a tiller with this rudder, so I wont have to worry about cables or footbraces breaking.

A couple of nice benefits from this whole problem are that, one, I found that in a pinch I can lower the sails quickly and safely, and two, the boat with the outriggers on is easy to paddle and steer without a rudder in windy (15 - 20 knots) conditions. Nice to know these things for sure.
 
what i really mean is, why tie up one more of your hands when you don't have to? surely the foot system can be made to work to your satisfaction?

.
 
I just dont think the foot braces can take the stress of the much larger rudder blade. Also, I have found that the gas pedal steering is super nice when kayaking, when sailing I found I was having to really strain to push the pedal to move the rudder. Then as soon as I let up, even a tiny bit, the rudder would go back to center and then over the opposite way, and the boat immediately starts to turn downwind.

I think it will be more comfortable to hold a tiller in my hand than to have to be pushing forcefully with my toes for the entire time I am out. I think if pedals were the traditional style where the entire brace slides, it would be ok, but I am not going to "downgrade" to that.

I am setting up the rudder much like the Watertribe one mentioned above, where it can be rudder steered, or line steered. This way I can string some line to a couple of cam-cleats and the steering will be basically handsfree. However, I will hold off on actually installing the lines until I have tried the tiller first.

Photos of my setup will come soon....
 
Photos of the rudder, cheek plates, and yoke before and after fiberglassing.


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I have everything varnished and ready to be put together as soon as the last coat of varnish dries. Hopefully there will be some good wind next weekend so I can test out the new rudder system.

The photo shows the rudder and the rudder mount/ tiller yoke assembly. I used bloodwood for the insert in the rudder (just like the leeboard) and also on the mount for the pin to fin into. I have a system in mind for raising and lowering the rudder, and I can't wait to see how it works.

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Well, I was able to go out with the new rudder on Sunday for another sea trial. The first hour I was extremely pleased with how well the rudder worked. I was able to steer exactly where I wanted to go and did not have any of the problems that I had using the first system.

It wasn't even a pain to use a tiller. I devised a simple system so that I could take my hand off and still maintain my heading. More on that later.

The only problem came when the box I built disintegrated and the rudder came off. Talk about losing steerage! I had to drop the sails and shimmy back to the end of the boat to get the rudder out of the water (It was dangling from the bungies used to hold it in the water). I then had a nice long paddle back to the beach, luckily downwind of me.

The problem came from when the cedar block I used in the middle of the two fiberglassed cheeks split in half. In retrospect, cedar was probably the wrong wood to use here.

My question for you all is if you think the cedar will split again if I epoxy it back together. I know the section where the epoxy is will be stronger, but the rest will still be cedar. Or, would a piece made from laminated plywood be a better option? I just lost the use of my workshop, so I need to find something that takes minimal work, but will be safe on the water.

Thanks
 
Kea,

Yeah, the cedar will split again, most likely, unless you cut the block across the hole the pintle fits into and re-glue so there are glue lines at right angles to the hole. I'd make at least three cuts.

Cedar is also not as dimensionally stable across the grain on wetting as plywood, so it might make more sense to refab the block from laminations of plywood. No matter how careful you are to coat the block, in that usage, it will get wet, somehow.
 
Here's a couple of photos of the boat before the rudder exploded, and one of the damage! I think I am going to have to get the image sensor cleaned in my camera.


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Yes, that would be back to my comment about designing for the additional force you are generating by having a longer rudder. Don't be shy about creating your own plywood with layers of glass cloth and wood. You can create very strong composite pieces that way. Looks like you need to increase the area of the joint between the verticle and horizontal piece in the steering system, if I understand correctly what failed. Have fun :wink: .

ws
 
I HATE SEA TRIALS!

The latest in the trials happened today. The wind was blowing pretty good so I took the boat down to the water today. I got everything set up and ready to go. As I was pushing the boat into the water a huge wave crashed over me and the boat and turned the boat sideways. Another wave crashed onto me and I heard a SNAP! I looked back to see that the back part of my boat where the rudder attaches had broken off. I guess the rudder got stuck in the sand and I built it so strong that the boat was the weaker link.

Well, now I have to fix this. I am looking for advice from you all on this one. As you can see from the pictures the break isn't exactly the cleanest. The only thing I can think to do is to sand things as smooth as I can and then fill the gaps with epoxy. I then was thinking of wrapping several layers of fiberglass around the stern and onto the hull for several inches.

Does this sound like a good idea? Especially since I will be mounting the rudder back on the same spot? Can anyone think of a better way to mount a rudder?

Thanks, Casey

You can see the chunk that came off. The rudder bracket mounts with 4 screws.

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Boat is upside down in the photo

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Sorry to hear you're having trials keabird :?

Looking at the shape and placement of that broken bit - have you considered shaving the rough part off and replacing that whole piece of the kayak with an oak, brass or stainless mounting plate? Screwed directly to the hull it would look like it was designed to fit..

Just a thought from a guy with little real expertise.

daniel
 
Ooof. That is too bad. Looks to me like the rudder bracket needs to engage more of the hull structure in order to prevent a recurrence. You might consider something like this:

Rough-fit the broken piece to the hull and secure it with some long pins (think 1/16 D piano wire, driven into parallel holes that run parallel to the sheer line, maybe four or so, leaving a rectangular gap in the center of the broken piece.

Then fashion a mortise in the center of the gap that runs about 6 inches into the boat, sized for whatever piece of stock you have around that is sturdy, perhaps oak, perhaps plywood (this would be the tenon). This needs to engage whatever you have inside the boat for structure, perhaps the end pour. If you do not yet have an end pour, this might be the time to put one in.

Separate the broken piece by pulling the pins.

Cut off the tenon a little shy of flush with the exterior of the stern surface, so when the broken piece is reattached with the pins, there is an eighth of an inch or so of relief. Goop it all up and epoxy it all together, using the pins for guidance and pushing the broken piece home.

CWhen it is cured, clean out the recess, glue in whatever trim piece you like, and finish the end to your liking.

I think you need more engagement of those rudder bracket tangs in order to prevent a recurrence..
 
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