Coho Build - Vancouver, Washington (Portland, Oregon)

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by photoshawn, Apr 2, 2009.

  1. DarenN

    DarenN Paddler

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    don't, please. :wink:
    before mating the deck and hull, go ahead and cut the bulkheads to an approximate fit, but don't glass them into the hull before the deck is in place. boat building isn't an exact science and there are just too many variables to expect Lego-like fitups. even with CNC-cut kits there will be discrepencies in the shape of the final assembly.

    Daren........
     
  2. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    You can do it the way that you've suggested -- but I wouldn't.

    Firstly, you want to glass your deck and then cut out the hatches -- glass the hatch lids after cutting them and you could possibly end up with warped hatch lids.

    You could install your bulkheads ahead of time but if they're not bang on, it could hold the deck up and that would be a major little problem to deal with when you're attaching the deck (things boatbuilding have a way of shifting at the most inopportune moments). For what it's worth, I don't find bulkheads all that bothersome to do after the deck is attached -- just invert the boat when you install them -- it's really easy to work in the boat when it's upside down and you're standing at a comfortable height. I also suggest picking up some colloidal silica at your local epoxy dealer -- use this for the filets on your bulkheads and inside sheer seems, as well as on your cheek plates -- the white coloured goo is easy to work with, wipes clean (if you get it before it sets), and makes for really, really nice and easy filets -- apply a bead of thickened epoxy around your bulkhead, and simply use your gloved finger to get a uniform and tidy filet. I'll never use wood flour for filets ever again. Just bear in mind that you need to work clean with colloidal silica -- it's terribly tough stuff to sand when fully cured). Here's a photo of a finished bulkhead filet on my Coho:

    [​IMG]


    Here's the way I approach hatches and bulkheads -- I figure out where my hatches are going to be located before I cut the openings. I then fiberglass the underside of the deck allowing a couple of inches beyond the actual location, install the deck, glass the top of the deck, and then cut the hatch openings. Doing this ensures that your hatch cover is not going to be warped. At all.

    After I've attached the deck to the hull, I then cut the hatch openings -- but I don't attach the hatch spacers and lips until after I install the bulkheads and fiberglass the sheer seams -- doing so greatly reduces the size of the little "holes" that you have to squeeze through to do your taped seams and bulkheads installation.
     
  3. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Dan's advice is excellent, as usual. I agree fillets made with silica-filled resin are much smoother and better than ones made with wood flour. they sand out much better, also. Some folks include some milled glass fibers, also, for more strength, but not needed for bulkheads. They are not highly stressed.
     
  4. Tootsall

    Tootsall Paddler

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    Thanks everyone. And that's why I asked!

    When I was out in Victoria back in October I saw a completed Coho for resale at a sports store "down by the water" (you'll know the one I mean). It had some lovely little brass finger-handles inset into the hatch lids: kind of looked like those ones you might find on a campaign desk or such... a round ring that could be pulled out of a recess.

    If anybody knows what I mean... does anyone have an idea where I might find same? They looked perfect for that application but I haven't been able to source something even remotely close yet.
     
  5. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Is this the style you are looking for? http://www.boatfix.com/shop3/store/view ... oduct=2160

    I think they came in unplated brass, also.

    I would not want them on my deck, because they are an abrasion hazard in a rescue.

    Might be that a recessed, fixed pull would be better.

    Search DarenN's posts for his way of recessing deck line attachments. That may appeal to you more.
     
  6. Tootsall

    Tootsall Paddler

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    That is pretty close, Dave. The one I saw was inset into the hatch cover and was 100% "flush" with the top surface of the deck. No screws or rivets or whatever protruding above the surface. I can't remember if the finger pull was spring loaded to stay "down" or not.
     
  7. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Tootsall,

    Hit this link and look around: http://www.fisheriessupply.com/online/default.asp

    I bet it will be listed here, somewhere. That piece above is a Sea Dog item. they make a ton of stuff like that. Really, though, search for DarenN's flush SS deck line fittings. they are totally skookum.
     
  8. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    different approaches often match different methods. If you are doing pygmy hatches, then the easiest is to cut after joining.

    if you are doing more complicated hatches, then doing it while the deck is apart is way easier. I have experience of later, heh heh.

    yak hanging upside down:
    [​IMG]

    And obviously for the similar reasons, putting in a bulkhead first is easier than later - especially as the hatch form does give some shaping indication during the latter part of the build. Same for footpegs and fitting setups:

    In any case if you can preplan the fitting locations, you can at least back up those areas easier when the deck is separate.

    Essentially if you don't need easy access, the deck is stronger non-cut. If you do need easy access, just be more careful (use a couple of clamped stringers) for deck stiffness, and be watchful of deck/hatch shape change.

    .
     
  9. Mark_Schilling

    Mark_Schilling Paddler

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    Dan, is the colloidal silica you use on bulkheads as strong as en epoxy/wood flour mix? I just wonder if it might fail with the pressure that a completely flooded cockpit would exert on them. I've heard of siliconed bulkheads on commercially available boats failing in extreme conditions.
     
  10. Tootsall

    Tootsall Paddler

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    Thanks for that link, Dave. I'll bet this unit in brass is what I was looking at: it would be recessed so that it was flush and use epoxy to "screw" it in place (much like the Pygmy instructions for glassing in some of their components). One would likely need to reinforce the bottom of the hatch cover with a "pad" (same as welding a re-pad on a pressure vessel wherever connections or openings are made) since there obviously isn't sufficient hatch thickness to support it otherwise.

    Now I'll start digging around to find what you were referring to with respect to Daren's idea.

    [​IMG]

    Link to Round Lift Ring
     
  11. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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  12. Tootsall

    Tootsall Paddler

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    Just what I needed! An excuse to buy another $1,500 worth of power tools! LOL.

    Q: Does a real man ever need an excuse to buy more tools?

    A: If he wants to stay married he does!
     
  13. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Toots, send me a PM. I might be able to help you on this.
     
  14. DarenN

    DarenN Paddler

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    thanks for posting that link Dave. it may have just been the kick in the pants i need to restart the initiative motor. we'll see when i get back from the campout.

    Daren......
     
  15. cattail

    cattail Paddler

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    Quote "Tootsall"
    OK, I don't want to hijack Shawn's thread but...

    DarenN That's Good News having done the inside fillet on mine I am wondering how your going to get around all those sake cups.
     
  16. photoshawn

    photoshawn Paddler

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    I think I'm just going to leave it alone. I haven't a clue how I could get it to shift... I tried having it sit high instead of dead on to the lower panel.. and even then ... it's just off and I can't get it to budge correctly. It's maybe 132nd of an inch.. all the others are dead on though. So maybe that one bottom keel panel.. wasn't but joined perfectly.. or I dunno.

    Building surface doesn't really pertain (that I see of). It's loosely put together, floppin' all around until ya put in the support pieces and whatnot,I'm about to flip the critter over.. this is when the level part is important... but have to epoxy the extra support pieces under the deck back area. And then I'm on to filling the joints between the panels. Yikes! :) At this point I'll be redoing all my work area I guess. .. hmm...
     
  17. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    Don't know for certain but I've had my cockpit completely flooded many, many times and never had an issue with it -- just to be clear, this isn't like a silicone sealant -- it's a very tough glue that cures hard.

    *****
     
  18. photoshawn

    photoshawn Paddler

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    Oh no harm done :) I totally understand your points of view. I had many of those thoughts while debating whether or not to build my own kayak. But for me... this year... the experience of building this kayak is what I'm after. When I hopped in my wife's kayak we just purchased.. it just felt like.. another rental sorta. When I hop in this boat I'm building, it's going to be a feeling completely different - I'm quite certain of it. And then when I drown, my wife will be hella happy. BUT it's all about the experience LOL.

    I already doubled the time and money in to my estimate Hah.. and I'll probably double the time again ;) But the money.. I'm actually surprised - I swore I'd be spending so much extra money on it than what I have for tools and supplies, etc. But so far... I've only spent maybe $50 on 'stuff' other than what came with the kit. I'm surprised as heck to be honest. And I don't see any future needs for anything other than maybe more epoxy coz I'm a newbie and will likely use more than I should. Oh.. I did spend about $25 I think it was for the table.

    The real pain in the a was cleaning the garage!!! so I could put a 20' table in there!!!

    The worse part that people probably don't put on these posts.. is the wives LOL. She wants me to hurry up and get done so we can go kayaking together... but then she wants me to spend time with her... don't EVEN remind her of the fact that every time you drop what you're doing it will lengthen the project two or three times. I did.. once. That won't happen again ;)
     
  19. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    My wife wants me to build another boat because I'm never home when I've got one on the go. :shock:

    *****
     
  20. photoshawn

    photoshawn Paddler

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    For what it's worth... yeah., the instructions.. at times.. you have to REALLY search to find things.. but apparently they're really great instructions compared to other manufacturer's instructions. And I do find them good, once I read and re-read. But on my page 16, it says if you wish to add hatches, you can wait to do the inside fillet until after you glass the deck and then cut your hatches.

    So it sounds like they recommend gluing on the deck, glassing... and THEN cutting your hatches.

    I know many have made comments that explain why and when, etc... but thought I'd throw that in there.