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Double or Triple Help me choose !

J

John-in-Abbotsford

New Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2007
Messages
6
Hello everyone, I've only recently come across this site and have found it to be very informative ... as I am looking at getting back into doing a bit of paddling again.
A bit of back history ... apx. 12yrs back I built a cedar strip canoe over the course of 4 weeks to take on it's first venture ( the Bowron Lakes) had a great time on the trip and while paddling the lakes met up with the owner of Pygmy Kayaks doing the route with a rowboat of his design. Subsequently upon my return home in short order I ordered a kit for the Osprey Standard which I completed over the next few months, a very enjoyable boat which I paddled periodically for the next few years. Then life changed re: relationships etc. and the boats were relegated to the rafters for these past 10 yrs.
Well once again life has changed and I'm anxious to get back to paddling again. ( last weekend "sunday" ) I took the canoe out on Hayward Lake as well as Buntzen to circumnavigate both with a new "friend"

Now I'm thinking of purchasing another kit from Pygmy for either the Double or the Triple .. what would be the pro's or con's with either of these boats. Intended usage would be for day trips to week long trips re: Bowron Lakes once again or other places >>>

Any insight would be much appreciated !
Thanx
John
 
Welcome John,

I personally prefer a triple over a double for a number of reasons. Mainly I like the idea of having an extra seat for a dog, child, or mother in law to come along. Also, with your Osprey and a Triple you could have 4 people out on the water together. The next thing I think a Triple is great for is paddler separation. Many doubles have the cockpits spaced closer together to make room for larger hatch compartments. This forces the paddlers to paddle in sync. In a triple the paddlers are far enough apart so that they can paddle at their own pace.

More benefits: The center cockpit can be used as a very nice area for bulky gear storage. I have been thinking of building a fiberglassed okume cover for the center cockpit on our boat. This would make for a nice, secure compartment for longer trips. The triple would fit nicely with CLC's sail rig kit should you ever want to turn your 'yak into a really fast trimaran.

The main thing to consider is that the triple really is not suitable for solo paddling. They are just too long and catch too much wind for one person to handle.

Hope this helps.
 
And, here is a yin for keabird's yang.

I built and then paddled an Osprey Double for a few seasons. I sold it five years ago ... maybe the worst decision of my life!

Becky and I comparison-paddled their triple and their double before I bought the double kit. And, we both felt the triple was an inferior choice for a couple reasons:

1. Both paddlers are a little closer to the ends ... leading to a very wet ride in rough conditions for the forward paddler, and more weight in the ends. More weight in the ends translates to somewhat poorer sea-keeping, especially in a serious following sea.

2. The triple has markedly less secure, bulkheaded storage because of 1. above. [In fact, I moved both bulkheads toward the center in the double I built, to maximize dry storage.]

3. The center space is a bit compromised in rough conditions if it is only covered with a cockpit cover; the double is bombproof in the center, and definitely a stronger boat.

4. Storing gear in the center of the double can make use of tiedowns under the deck as well as tiedowns off the inner surface of the hull; and, you can deckload the double securely using padeyes off the top surface of the deck. In the triple, you only have the hull surface to work from, and all the storage is in one space, making separate access to gear a little more difficult.

Unlike the cockpit separation in many smaller doubles, Pygmy's double has enough separation that paddleclash is not a problem ... even though we were using a 235 up front and a 250 in the rear.

I really wish I had not sold that boat; we bought an older CD Libra XT a couple years ago; although it is a little faster than the Pygmy, it has much finer ends, making for much more difficult storage. And, because it is a glass boat, it is 30 lbs heavier than the Pygmy double. I think that Pygmy double is a really fine boat.

I would only consider Pygmy's triple over the double if my main use were daytrips with passengers in the center; their double is superior to the triple, if it is to serve just two paddlers.
 
Thanks Dave !!
You've brought up some very good points placing the double ahead of the triple .. some of which I had thought of already such as the "dry storage" issue, also having the stowable gear being much more secure. Also the fact that without the centre cockpit the boat being more durable, definitely makes sense.
I really have no need for a "third" to come along on trips , do not have a dog nor young-uns so really no need for extra passenger space.

Also liked your thought "experience" re: the fact that with the triple the boat may not handle as well with the paddlers being that much more forward and aft.

Thanks so much for your insight !

Would still like to hear comments from others as well but just so you know ... I have been leaning towards the double, just wanted to get others opinions as to what may be prefered.

John
 
From a "layman's" point of view :roll:

What would the practicality of a triple be unless you're only planning on kayaking in calm waters with lots of additional storage space?
Or planning on a regular basis to use it as a single? (using the center seat?)

Length-wise, weight-wise and water-wise I'd tend to go for the double?

IMHO :D
 
I have a Pygmy double and completely echo Dave's comments.

Although it is possible to paddle the double (or triple) solo, it's a big boat that is a handful in any kind of choppy conditions.

Since it appears that you have no real need for the triple, my vote would be for the double -- you get proper (useable) storage hatches (the triple has no hatches - although you could add a couple of very small ones) and it's a great boat to paddle.

*****
 
Iwannapaddle said:
From a "layman's" point of view :roll:

What would the practicality of a triple be unless you're only planning on kayaking in calm waters with lots of additional storage space?
Or planning on a regular basis to use it as a single? (using the center seat?)

Length-wise, weight-wise and water-wise I'd tend to go for the double?

IMHO :D
Click to expand...

The Pygmy double and triple are the same length, beam, and weight, so that doesn't have to be an issue in deciding.
 
Iwannapaddle said:
Although from what Dan and Dave say - the extra storage space on the double sure sounds like the way to go?
Click to expand...
Not only for its value as storage, but also as flotation in the event the boat is swamped. A swamped double is brutal and a half to pump/bail out. We did some self rescue practice in our Pygmy Double; we were whupped after two swampings! :roll: :cry: Think big bailer and/or canvas bucket.

A Triple, having lesser bulkheaded internal volume, would be even worse.
 
Hmmm... yes there is a lot of volume to pump out with the double (and even more with the triple), but I've found that if the double is upside-down and then righted quickly that most of the water will evacuate the boat. There's still more water in the cockpit than a single kayak but it's managable with a couple of hand pumps.

I've often thought that a couple of bulkheads and a hatch between the cockpits of the double would be a good idea (except that it would prohibit flipping the boat over and swimming underneath into the cockpits and having a discussion in the "cone of silence" (am I dating myself there?). My kids love playing around the upside-down kayak -- they crawl through the boat from one cockpit and exit from the other).

*****
 
Thanks all for the insight, Re; my choice to go with either the double or triple.

Seems to be that the choice will be the double, for a number of very valid reasons. Mostly for safety and the advantage of more secure and "dry" storage. I believe that I'll most likely place bulkheads in the centre section as well and create another hatch for added storage., this may not be a large area given the legroom required by the stern paddler, but none the less with me being a novice, I think that I'll welcome this added secure space.

John.
 
John, when you get to that point (deciding how much space to enclose between paddlers), come back and dialog some more. I had that thought going in, also, and abandoned it, for a couple reasons. I think I have some photos around here of what I did instead, when you are ready for them, to give another choice.
 
Yup, what Dave said. I also have some ideas of how I would approach building bulkheads in the double -- basically, I'd build them similar to some of the commercial doubles that have "foot" pockets for the rear paddler -- essentially extending the useable storage space into the cockpit. I'll see if I can get some photos today of what I'm talking about here. You've got plenty of time to work out how you'd do the bulkheads as it will be one of the last things that you would do when building the boat.

*****
 
heh heh, lots of ideas:

1)at the moment if i was to do it - i'd put in a bulkhead just hugging the front guy and put webloops or clips all over the other side of it - and then just clip or pull gearbags onto the bulkhead.

2) or samething with gearfittings and bulkhd and have a mesh cover that you pull in place, jamming the gearbags against the bulkhd

3) or samething with the singlebulkhead, but now put in a hatch but also a seasock. that way have optional footroom. the back of the seasock could be shaped to allow footroom. i'm doing this for one of my yaks dayhatch where the dayhatch is actually a drybag bottom (flush hatch top) so that the regular hatch can use as much space as desired.

4) or samething with front bulkhead and hatch but put in a semipermanent removable/adjustable rear bulkhead that has a biketire around the pemimeter that you blow up to seal wherever the footroom you want.

5) or have both ckpts back to back and one guy paddles forward while the other backwd

6) just tie in gearbags in the centre like gearbags tied in a canoe with lotsa hull loop fittings.
 
Basically, I did Mick's (6) and was very happy with it. The critical feature is that the gear will not shift in rough water. As Mick suggests, to really get enough packing volume in a double, you need to make good use of the space between the rear paddler's legs. Believe it or not, two singles of medium to high volume have more bulkheaded dry storage than even a very large double.
 
Yup, just glue some canoe lash tabs inside and tie your dry bags securely in place.

After giving it some more thought, I agree with what Dave and Mick say, the lash tab solution might be better than bulkheads as it allows a bit more flexiblity for packing.

*****
 
Dan_Millsip said:
Yup, just glue some canoe lash tabs inside and tie your dry bags securely in place.*****
Click to expand...
That was it -- those thngs you guys sell at Western, glued down with the two-part 3M polyurethane adhesive. Bombproof, and simple.
 
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