Dry spot

Blackhawk

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Sorry for the dumb question. I've searched the internet but no luck.
What do you do when you find a mistake in the glassing? I had to go away for a few weeks and, when I returned, I noticed in the sunlight three small dry spots in the glass.
I was doing this in my basement and these were on the side with less light. Lesson learned. Get good illumination.
The largest is smaller than a dime.
One is about 1 1/2" long, but probably 1/8" thick.
Thanks. It's a learning process for sure.
 

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JohnAbercrombie

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It can be tough to get pictures that show things like you describe. From what I can see, I wouldn't worry very much about it.
This is glass wetout plus a fill coat? Are you planning more fill coats before final sanding and varnish?
 

Blackhawk

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It can be tough to get pictures that show things like you describe. From what I can see, I wouldn't worry very much about it.
This is glass wetout plus a fill coat? Are you planning more fill coats before final sanding and varnish?
Yeah, it is hard to see in a picture. I wish I had more space in my basement for this. I'm going to get a spotlight to help with the rest.
Part of me is tempted to redo the entire hull. Would I have to strip all of the glass down to wood to do this?
 

JohnAbercrombie

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I've built quite a few boats, and they all have 'defects'...... the great majority are never noticed by others.
For me, an air bubble under the glass, or a bad bond between lamination layers are things I'd repair.
You didn't answer my questions about where you are in the glass-fill-varnish sequence. Perhaps a water wash, light sanding and another fill coat would make a difference?
If it really bothers you, stripping the glass is a possibility - Nick Schade (Guillemot) has YouTube video on that.
LED tube lighting has gotten much cheaper lately - I've added a bunch to my shop and it definitely helps. I also painted the floor white a few years ago and that makes a surprising improvement.
I still find 'next day' mistakes, though! :)
 

Blackhawk

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I've built quite a few boats, and they all have 'defects'...... the great majority are never noticed by others.
For me, an air bubble under the glass, or a bad bond between lamination layers are things I'd repair.
You didn't answer my questions about where you are in the glass-fill-varnish sequence. Perhaps a water wash, light sanding and another fill coat would make a difference?
If it really bothers you, stripping the glass is a possibility - Nick Schade (Guillemot) has YouTube video on that.
LED tube lighting has gotten much cheaper lately - I've added a bunch to my shop and it definitely helps. I also painted the floor white a few years ago and that makes a surprising improvement.
I still find 'next day' mistakes, though! :)
Wet out plus a fill coat. Will be doing more fill coats and varnish. This is on the hull.
Attaching pictures. I think it was frustration speaking about redoing the entire hull. Should I sand these spots and patch them? Leave well enough alone and drive on?
The problem is not so much the size of my work area, but the illumination. I just purchased a portable spotlight that should help. These are both on the same side away from the light and I didn't notice them until it was too late.
 

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Roy222

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Mr. Hawk,
Once the first coat of resin has set there is not much you can do to fix that. The thing is, the blemish is was not totally wet out - but there is resin in the glass. If there was no resin in the glass the fill coat would wet it out. It is just a blemish and not structural.
If you strip and reglass, who's to say you don't wind up with more blemishes.
If those are all the glassing issues you have, feel lucky. Maybe if it was your 10th build and for show, you should be upset.
If you are not building for a boat show contest, leave it alone.
It is a beautiful boat, and will look great on the water.

Roy
 

Blackhawk

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Mr. Hawk,
Once the first coat of resin has set there is not much you can do to fix that. The thing is, the blemish is was not totally wet out - but there is resin in the glass. If there was no resin in the glass the fill coat would wet it out. It is just a blemish and not structural.
If you strip and reglass, who's to say you don't wind up with more blemishes.
If those are all the glassing issues you have, feel lucky. Maybe if it was your 10th build and for show, you should be upset.
If you are not building for a boat show contest, leave it alone.
It is a beautiful boat, and will look great on the water.

Roy
Yeah. I read a good quote from someone on varnishing. You either build furniture or you build something utilitarian that will get scuffed. If the latter, use the 3' rule.
 

Blackhawk

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Mr. Hawk,
Once the first coat of resin has set there is not much you can do to fix that. The thing is, the blemish is was not totally wet out - but there is resin in the glass. If there was no resin in the glass the fill coat would wet it out. It is just a blemish and not structural.
If you strip and reglass, who's to say you don't wind up with more blemishes.
If those are all the glassing issues you have, feel lucky. Maybe if it was your 10th build and for show, you should be upset.
If you are not building for a boat show contest, leave it alone.
It is a beautiful boat, and will look great on the water.

Roy
As I prepare to glass the deck, how do I avoid this in the future?
Thanks.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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System 3, like WEST epoxy is quite viscous -'syrup-y'.
I've used quite a lot of both.
If you can pre-heat the epoxy and the boat, it might help. Once you start to work, cut the shop heat and let things cool down as the epoxy cures.
Details online at WEST and System Three ('warming epoxy', 'thinning epoxy').
Getting the epoxy warm reduces the viscosity and helps the wet-out. Having the boat pre-warmed prevents the epoxy from 'thickening up' by cooling when it hits the boat.
The problem with warm epoxy is that the pot life is reduced, so it's even more important than usual to get the epoxy out of the mixing container and into a thin layer over the glass.

In general I think it's best to apply 'a bit too much' epoxy on glass. Once the glass has fully wetted out, careful work with a 'squeegee' (plastic spreader) to remove the excess epoxy is important - without that the glass will 'float up' in the epoxy and you will sand through the glass when you level the surface. Ted Moores explains it well in KayakCraft and CanoeCraft, and you've already done that on the hull, so I'm mentioning it for other readers.

Another thing to watch for is any spots on the glass cloth. If the cloth has gotten damp (wet finger or drop of sweat) or been touched with uncured epoxy contaminated gloves , it won't wet out properly.
 

Blackhawk

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System 3, like WEST epoxy is quite viscous -'syrup-y'.
I've used quite a lot of both.
If you can pre-heat the epoxy and the boat, it might help. Once you start to work, cut the shop heat and let things cool down as the epoxy cures.
Details online at WEST and System Three ('warming epoxy', 'thinning epoxy').
Getting the epoxy warm reduces the viscosity and helps the wet-out. Having the boat pre-warmed prevents the epoxy from 'thickening up' by cooling when it hits the boat.
The problem with warm epoxy is that the pot life is reduced, so it's even more important than usual to get the epoxy out of the mixing container and into a thin layer over the glass.

In general I think it's best to apply 'a bit too much' epoxy on glass. Once the glass has fully wetted out, careful work with a 'squeegee' (plastic spreader) to remove the excess epoxy is important - without that the glass will 'float up' in the epoxy and you will sand through the glass when you level the surface. Ted Moores explains it well in KayakCraft and CanoeCraft, and you've already done that on the hull, so I'm mentioning it for other readers.

Another thing to watch for is any spots on the glass cloth. If the cloth has gotten damp (wet finger or drop of sweat) or been touched with uncured epoxy contaminated gloves , it won't wet out properly.
Any other tips?
1. I have enough extra cloth to use one piece. The Pygmy manual says to cut it into two pieces. Use two pieces?
2. Tips on getting it right around the cockpit? Seems like that is where there might be the most issue.
3. Start in the middle and work out or at one end? Or does it matter?
Any other tips?

Thanks. I will see the deck more than the keel and don't want some imperfection staring at me all day while I paddle.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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Any other tips?
Learn to live with small mistakes! :)
When I was building my sailboat, Joel White (the designer) 'set me straight' on this. To paraphrase his words:"It's a boat, not a violin. You are going to drop it into a very big puddle when it is finished! Just set a solid workmanlike standard of quality and keep pushing on. "

1. I have enough extra cloth to use one piece. The Pygmy manual says to cut it into two pieces. Use two pieces?
2. Tips on getting it right around the cockpit? Seems like that is where there might be the most issue.
Is there a cockpit recess? Perhaps fitting the cloth 'down' into the recess is the reason that Pygmy suggests cutting it into two?
I usually use a full piece of cloth -oriented on the bias- on the deck. I find it's helpful to cut a hole in the cloth mid-cockpit, leaving plenty of extra for the deck (i.e. don't make the hole too big). That seems to let the cloth adjust to the curves around the cockpit better. Be sure to lay paper/plastic in the cockpit area of the hull to catch epoxy if there are drips.
If you do use two pieces, the join will be mid cockpit where it's not very visible - mostly hidden by the coaming.
3. Start in the middle and work out or at one end? Or does it matter?
I don't think it matters - whatever system you used on the hull should work OK. I usually pour epoxy down the mid-line and spread it out quickly (but gently, not disturbing the cloth position) at the start to 'anchor' the cloth in position. Getting the cloth smoothly laid out dry is important. I use a clean bench brush (a wide paint brush would work) to coax the cloth to lie smoothly everywhere.

Thanks. I will see the deck more than the keel and don't want some imperfection staring at me all day while I paddle.
Deck line, bungees, chart, compass, perhaps pump/water bottle/GPS will cover up the deck. If that doesn't do the trick, there's always the possibility of a well-placed logo! :)
See advice pointer #1 above. :)

We need more pictures, please! :)
 

Blackhawk

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Learn to live with small mistakes! :)
When I was building my sailboat, Joel White (the designer) 'set me straight' on this. To paraphrase his words:"It's a boat, not a violin. You are going to drop it into a very big puddle when it is finished! Just set a solid workmanlike standard of quality and keep pushing on. "


Is there a cockpit recess? Perhaps fitting the cloth 'down' into the recess is the reason that Pygmy suggests cutting it into two?
I usually use a full piece of cloth -oriented on the bias- on the deck. I find it's helpful to cut a hole in the cloth mid-cockpit, leaving plenty of extra for the deck (i.e. don't make the hole too big). That seems to let the cloth adjust to the curves around the cockpit better. Be sure to lay paper/plastic in the cockpit area of the hull to catch epoxy if there are drips.
If you do use two pieces, the join will be mid cockpit where it's not very visible - mostly hidden by the coaming.

I don't think it matters - whatever system you used on the hull should work OK. I usually pour epoxy down the mid-line and spread it out quickly (but gently, not disturbing the cloth position) at the start to 'anchor' the cloth in position. Getting the cloth smoothly laid out dry is important. I use a clean bench brush (a wide paint brush would work) to coax the cloth to lie smoothly everywhere.


Deck line, bungees, chart, compass, perhaps pump/water bottle/GPS will cover up the deck. If that doesn't do the trick, there's always the possibility of a well-placed logo! :)
See advice pointer #1 above. :)

We need more pictures, please! :)
Thanks!
The cockpit is recessed.
Will include pictures after the deck is glassed and I can get it outside.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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About spreading the epoxy - if you are worried about the epoxy setting up too soon, perhaps it would be better to work from one end.
Having a helper to do the mixing makes things more relaxed if you haven't done a lot of glassing with epoxy.
 

Blackhawk

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It went fairly well. Only issue was leaving the resin in cups too long. By the time I went back to scrape the first coat some had started to harden. I guess extra sanding?
So now the question... varnish.
I should be done by the end of the week. But reading up on varnish it looks like 1 coat/day. Eight coats, flip the boat, eight coats... another 16 days of work.
Thoughts?
 

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JohnAbercrombie

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Thanks for the pic. It is looking good!

I'll leave the varnishing hints for somebody else to add.
I have access to a spray booth, so I'd use clear coat (3 coats, 15-20 min between coats).
Is 8 coats the number recommended by Pygmy?
Unless you are going to store your boat outside, I think you could probably manage with fewer coats, but I'm just guessing.
 

Roy222

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Mr Hawk.
you asked about nex time, the deck maybe?
There is a fine line between to much squeeze out and to much resin.
The trick is to not over work and area. Move the squeeze slow and push down just hard enough to see fibers. If the glass is moving under the squeeze , you are using to much pressure.
Go back over the whole job before it sets up.
Shine a bright light at an angle to the surface your glassing..

I recommend doing all the work with one tool like a squeeze.
 
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