Footbraces hardware

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by meredith, Jul 17, 2016.

  1. meredith

    meredith Paddler

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    I have a pair of Harmony keepers footbraces to mount, and am wondering if anyone has experience with the mounting hardware or alternatives. The footbraces come with 1/4"screws that actually screw into the plastic of the footbrace (making their own thread as screwed), and a rubber washer that goes on the inside (I think?) of the boat. However, longer 3/16" screws would fit through the footbrace and could be bolted on with a nut on the inside of the boat. From reviews, it sounds like some people had trouble with the self-threading screws. Just wondering if any one has experience or suggestions.
    Thanks for the help again.
     
  2. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    Are the 1/4" bolts long enough to allow a washer and nut on the inside? If so, then the footbrace will be fully captured by each of the bolts, which is a much more robust attachment method. If that inner nut and bolt end is exposed to your foot [at either end], take steps to minimize [hacksaw off ends, file, and nylon stop nut etc]
    The rubber washer goes betw the brace and the boat.
     
  3. meredith

    meredith Paddler

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    The 1/4"screws are not long enough to allow for a washer and nut on the inside. They would screw into the plastic of the footbrace and not extend through the width of the footbrace. I was thinking of finding longer 3/16" bolts that would fit through the footbrace (without threading the plastic) and could take a washer and nut.
     
  4. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    you know, I think there is a fair amount of plastic backing to resist the bolts deforming or pulling out as they already would be firmly bedded, and the foot pedal itself would likely fail first:


    So forget that thru bolt, I think it'll be ok as is.
     
  5. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Can not endorse threading a footbrace bolt into plastic. Just replace the 3/16 bolt, aka #10 screw, with a 1/4 x 20 pan head screw and drill out the keeper and the hull to fit. Much easier to find the length needed in quarter inch. Of course, that necessitates quarter by 20 washers and nuts. Get Nyloc nuts. A rubber washer on the outside will prevent leakage.
     
  6. meredith

    meredith Paddler

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    Thanks all for the replies, and thanks again Dave for the advice. I've never liked threading into plastic either and decided to look for suitable bolts and nuts instead. Luckily, the local independent hardware store has an amazing selection of fittings and I was able to find 1/4" bolts in the needed length with rubber washers for the outside and Nyloc nuts for the inside. It appears these will work well.
     
  7. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    Sounds like you are all set.

    IMO, you'd be fine with either attachment method. I just pulled a pair of plastic Keepers from a 1994 kayak (that had been used a fair bit, from the looks of it) and the 'self-tapping' style screws were still very secure. I think they were larger than #10 BTW.
     
  8. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    does that not implicitly endorse those plastic footpegs with their minimal pawls or questionable tension resisting little flanges?


    I guess at some level one should question the whole apparatus, especially if one is ever gets into the pitchpole surfzone near shore. 150-200# impact force at 5 or 10 knots all depending on that little 1/4"x1/4" plastic pawl not deforming in the corresponding plastic rail square detents?
     
  9. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Um, no. Those flanges eventually wear and slip, takes a long time, however. Not endorsing. I just live with them.

    The concern over #10-24 screws directly threaded into the plastic is that on successive installations and removals, the plastic will eventually yield. A 1/4-20 bolt and nut is a bombproof alternative, and puts the keeper under compression.
     
  10. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    Yes.
    I was wrong- those are #10 screws on the plastic Keeper pegs I have here. I was deceived by the large size pan heads, I guess. :D
    Off-topic:
    I'm not a fan of the Keepers design, even in aluminum. More than once I've seen a beginner wet exit (with a bit of thrashing) result in 'triggering' the pedals and sliding them aft. It just adds another hassle to getting back in the boat and ready to go.

    However IMO the Keepers are not as bad as the Wilderness(??) pegs with the 'lift lever/rod to adjust' system that releases when the boat is inverted - it makes a re-entry and roll really difficult sometimes.
    I like the Sea-Lects with the locking tabs - but I wouldn't recommend pitchpoling the boat with those either. :yikes: