Hand toggles

Blackhawk

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May 27, 2020
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49
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New York
I'm at that point in the build. Pygmy does not have any in stock. Recommendation on doing this part of the build? Since I did not purchase them, it's not in the manual.
I did a search of the threads, but many of the links to pictures are now dead.
Thanks.
 

chodups

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Nov 2, 2005
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I used a set of Necky toggles that I picked up at NWOC but any toggle will do as long as it can rotate when you grip it. I would suggest that the bungie was not really a good idea. I wanted something that wouldn't bang around and was trying to replicate the function on the toggles on a Tempest but a banging toggle isn't so terrible.
IMGP0264.JPG
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mick_allen

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May 15, 2005
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I think I remember picking up some lawnmower or chainsaw pull handles for one build.
 

nootka

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May 26, 2007
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Campbell River
You can make toggles out of pvc pipe (3/4" or 1") or antlers or whatever you find.
Chodups, I've used elastic with success but it has to be a lot longer.
 

Blackhawk

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New York
Sorry. I guess my questions are:
1. I assume fill more of the bow/stern with resin/wood flour mix?
2. How do you drill the hole straight through with the angled hull?
3. How far down/back?
4. How big a hole? 1/2"?
5. Any extra fiberglass once the hole is drilled?
Trying to find some kind of wood carved animal I can use as a handle. I saw some specifically for kayaks, but they want about $400 each.
Thanks.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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Dec 7, 2011
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It's good to plan ahead for the end toggles - a block of wood is lighter than an end pour. But , adding an end pour is common - just enough to do the job - set the boat on end and lower a 'little bucket' (paper cup with suspension) of epoxy into the end of the boat, then 'dump' it with a tripping line. Best not to add too much at once as the heat buildup can be a problem. Don't make the epoxy mix too thick - I'd use microballoons vs wood flour as thickener.

If you are going to use the through-hole, I recommend the NDK style with a single line toggle. No chance of trapping fingers in a loop.
NDK bow toggle .jpg


I use a U-bolt epoxied through the deck into the end of the kayak. The stainless 'U' from a (saddle-type) wire cable clamp is a good small U-bolt.
On my current project I just bent a piece of stainless rod and epoxied that for the bow toggle and perimeter line attachment.
If you are using a U-bolt or a larger hole through the bow, IMO you should stitch the two lines together to prevent trapping hand/fingers.
stitched toggle.jpg


That pic shows the U-bolt on the end of a Mariner; that bolt is a lot 'heftier' than I use in my builds.

For handles, PVC pipe works OK, but you can get very good and comfortable toggles from China (eBay) for a few dollars.
Here's the bow of my Frej kayak - smaller U-bolt from a cable clamp and Chinese toggle:
mini-Frej 18.JPG
 

chodups

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Nov 2, 2005
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Sorry. I guess my questions are:
1. I assume fill more of the bow/stern with resin/wood flour mix?
2. How do you drill the hole straight through with the angled hull?
3. How far down/back?
4. How big a hole? 1/2"?
The instructions for my Tern showed the pour extending 5.5 inches from the ends of the boat. The instructions for my Coho specifies a 1/2" hole. If I were ever to build another boat (I won't) I would use an NDK style toggle like the one John Abercrombie shows.
 

Blackhawk

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May 27, 2020
Messages
49
Location
New York
Your friends will like the look - but not the feel- of most carved animal shapes. A comfortable and 'grippy' handle is really welcome on a long carry with tired and wet hands.
Yeah, I was trying to find something smooth, but at this point I think it's time for the "Good Idea Fairy" to take a break so I can get this finished while the weather is still warm.
 

Blackhawk

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Joined
May 27, 2020
Messages
49
Location
New York
It's good to plan ahead for the end toggles - a block of wood is lighter than an end pour. But , adding an end pour is common - just enough to do the job - set the boat on end and lower a 'little bucket' (paper cup with suspension) of epoxy into the end of the boat, then 'dump' it with a tripping line. Best not to add too much at once as the heat buildup can be a problem. Don't make the epoxy mix too thick - I'd use microballoons vs wood flour as thickener.

If you are going to use the through-hole, I recommend the NDK style with a single line toggle. No chance of trapping fingers in a loop.
View attachment 8594

I use a U-bolt epoxied through the deck into the end of the kayak. The stainless 'U' from a (saddle-type) wire cable clamp is a good small U-bolt.
On my current project I just bent a piece of stainless rod and epoxied that for the bow toggle and perimeter line attachment.
If you are using a U-bolt or a larger hole through the bow, IMO you should stitch the two lines together to prevent trapping hand/fingers.
View attachment 8595

That pic shows the U-bolt on the end of a Mariner; that bolt is a lot 'heftier' than I use in my builds.

For handles, PVC pipe works OK, but you can get very good and comfortable toggles from China (eBay) for a few dollars.
Here's the bow of my Frej kayak - smaller U-bolt from a cable clamp and Chinese toggle:
View attachment 8596
That NDK style. Is it a 1/4" hole or 1/2"? How did you taper the hole?
I think that would look best.

Thanks.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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Victoria, BC
That NDK style. Is it a 1/4" hole or 1/2"? How did you taper the hole?
I think that would look best.

Thanks.
That a pic of an NDK Pilgrim from the web. I have a Romany and it's the same. Looks like a 1/4" diameter hole or so - just enough for a 3/16 line to pass easily. There's a good-sized countersink on both sides where the line enters.

I'd drill a pilot hole of about 1/8" - using a longish drill and sighting from above helps to line things up - or you can make a wood block with the correct angle as a drill guide. Once you are happy with the hole position, counterbore (about 5/8"?) through the plywood (not all the way through) and fill those recesses with thickened epoxy. Do one side at a time to let gravity help, and/or put a piece of tape over the epoxy fill to get the recess smoothly covered.
Re-drill through the center of the epoxy-filled area; enlarge hole to 1/4"; countersink; leaving a 'ring' of epoxy around the hole.
It sounds involved, but it is a good idea to protect the plywood from water intrusion (and staining).
With a glass boat like the NDKs, it's just a matter of drilling and countersinking. The end pour is thickened resin, and the glass and gelcoat don't need protection in that location.
Those NDK toggles are excellent in a swimming/rescue situation. Don't be concerned about 'noise' from hanging toggles- I've never found it to be an issue. Perhaps I need to paddle faster! :)
 

chodups

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Nov 2, 2005
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Chodups, I've used elastic with success but it has to be a lot longer.
Agreed. That photo was of one of the early attempts. I ended up with a longer and smaller diameter bungee cord. It worked fine but in retrospect I feel I was being overly fussy.
 

mick_allen

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May 15, 2005
Messages
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If rattling is an issue for you, another approach is to use webbing instead of line and urethane [goop = aquaseal] a strip of velcro on it as well as down the ctrline of the yak at the bow. Have the webbing coming out of the yak on the ctr line so everything lines up.

An alternative to this is to slightly flatten your handle and glue velcro onto it and let the line either hang free or also be adhered so it all is in a line.

Trying to find some kind of wood carved animal I can use as a handle

and continuing on this approach, you could also glue the velcro on the bow stem, carve your animal or use a solid toy painted to match your kayak hull, and if you set the stem back a bit or really balance the handle aesthetic with the hull/stem, you'll end up with an interesting and possibly integrated figure head for your kayak. You didn't say what pigmy you had, but if a tern or murrelet, a stylized cylindrical head [to match stem shape] might be worth the time of sketching up untill it gets right.

Or even if the stem was shaped slightly circular in xsection, then inset the top of that and shape a simple circular toggle to continue the sectional shape and Velcro that in place to continue the line.

Ideas anyway.
 

Mac50L

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Aug 18, 2014
Messages
239
Location
South Island, New Zealand
I use the same as John Abercrombie's middle picture, plastic pipe, though I don't loop the line through the fitting like that. I push the loop through the fitting and put the handle through the loop. It is removable later if wanted without untying the knots in the handle.

Simple and cheap.

If carrying and a group of paddlers, we use long webbing straps and carry with the straps looped under the kayak. This allows maximum load sharing. Four people two straps, three people one strap and one holding one end of the kayak by its handle.

The wide webbing is found in cars and called seat belts. Available either cheaply or free at a car wrecker's yard.
 

Blackhawk

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May 27, 2020
Messages
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Location
New York
I went with this.

Turned it into this. It's crude, but I like the look of the wood (black walnut in this case). Soaked in teak oil. I start installing the hardware this afternoon. We shall see how it turns out.
 

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