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High angle versus low angle sea kayak blades

Swimmy Tim

Paddler
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
11
Thoughts? I've only used low angle blades while sea kayaking, but come from a whitewater kayak background and used to a more upright style of paddling and a larger blade. Just curious about what the experts here think. I'm inclined to go high angle blade but don't want to develop shoulder issues after paddling for a few hours. Pros, cons, whatever....

Thanks again!
 
I just had a nice class last week and at one point my instructor said something like "people use to call it low angle and high angle. Now it's just low angle, and paddling".

That was supposed to mean that "high angle" paddling, with proper technique, is currently believed to be the more efficient and possibly less impactful way of paddling. Proper high angle paddling keeps your wrists and shoulders protected.. Maximizing torso and hip rotation, keeping the shoulders "locked". Keeping the wrists straight by loosening the grip on the top hand.. Making sure the upper arm doesn't go above horizontal (even if your hand crosses over about eye level, your elbow shouldn't go any higher than shoulder height)

I'm sure that's all possible to do with low angle paddling too, just saying I wouldn't worry about joint health just based on what kind of blade or style of paddling you pick :)

As for my completely unscientific and unproven opinion - if you're gonna be paddling a playboat like a zephyr, keep in mind that low angle strokes, with usually longer blades and shafts, are pretty much turning strokes all the time. It's gonna be hard enough keeping a zephyr going straight :D A higher paddling angle keeps the blade closer to the hull and minimizes the turning forces from each stroke.

edit: most paddle companies make "high angle" blades with smaller surface areas. Like the Werner Shuna/Cyprus, for instance. These are quite a bit smaller than the typical white water blade, which helps with increasing cadence and reducing the impact of each stroke.
 
Tiago covered the bases pretty well. I started when the only paddles available were low angle beasts, but quickly edged into something between high and low angle style as a survival move, owing to wrist tendinitis in my control hand, I believe.

One caveat: wider boats do not dance well with good high angle technique. I daresay anything over about 21 inches in beam pretty much dictates a low angle style, depending on the shoulder width of the paddler.
 
Swimmy Tim said:
Thoughts? I've only used low angle blades while sea kayaking, but come from a whitewater kayak background and used to a more upright style of paddling and a larger blade. Just curious about what the experts here think. I'm inclined to go high angle blade but don't want to develop shoulder issues after paddling for a few hours. Pros, cons, whatever....!

You don't mention shaft length. That's what will cause shoulder/back muscle problems. I can happily use a 190 cm on a wide paddle-board type kayak (when visiting in Australia) so beam isn't a problem either. Werner used to recommend 240 cm for my height and that's what we ended up with on the kayaks we paddled in the Queen Charlottes. I cursed the company supplying the gear for the next 2 months before the shoulder healed. A few paddlers I know who are taller than me (6') use 210 cm.

Why the long shaft problem? Because you can't paddle properly, with straightish arms, body rotation, fairly vertical stroke if the shaft is too long.

Yes, a Greenland (which is what I've used for a decade or so) is the way to go despite it generally being longer than any Euro I'd use. :wink:
 
This might sound like stupid questions, but they say there is no stupid questions only ----
Questions:
Is there a euro style paddle designed to be use like a Greenland paddle?
Have any of you tried designing and building a paddle of original design?


Roy
 
I agree with Mac that shaft length plays a role in paddler technique and comfort. I started paddling with 220cm, soon switched to 215cm, tried 205cm and instantly knew I had to get one, paddled for the next 8 years with the 205cm. While it was far better than the longer paddles, I eventually felt that I would be best off with 200cm, AND this year I discovered that Werner actually makes sea kayak paddles in that length. They are generally not offered stock in shops but must be ordered, no big deal. I forged ahead and ordered the 200cm Shuna and Cyprus, plus a 185cm Sherpa WW paddle (because I also felt that the 191cm I had used for 7 years was too long, despite Werner's own table of recommendations).

The way I determined my 205 and 191 were too long for their respective uses was that my hands always wanted to be slightly closer together, yet if I slid them inboard the blade ends felt "wrong", like too much was swinging around at the ends. In addition, I never felt like I could get a strong stroke--especially sprinting--without digging the blades in so deep they buried both the blade and some of the shaft. Torso rotation felt limited because I do not like to bury the shaft.

The real question was, Would the shorter paddles correct those misgivings without any adverse effects? The answer is a solid YES. I have been using the shorter ones for a couple of months now and would never go back. For my body (just under 5'3") and boats (sea kayak has 19.6" beam), the shorter lengths just feel right, finally.
 
Roy222 said:
Is there a Euro style paddle designed to be use like a Greenland paddle?

My answer is, not really, it is called a Wing paddle. An Aleutian paddle is actually closer to a Wing as it is asymmetrical in cross section rather than the symmetrical cross section of a Greenland. You can use the Euro in a lift style stroke (as the Wing works in) though it never feels the same or quite as efficient. By "lift" I mean the blade tending to move in the direction the kayak is moving in. If swept through the air like an aircraft wing it would give lift. A Euro will do that as will a Wing or Greenland, they are aerodynamic if angled correctly. The argument is "how well".

Have any of you tried designing and building a paddle of original design?

"Of original design", do you mean to the original Greenland design? To that, yes, built about a dozen. Easy to do. Two ways - out of a 4x2 cross section billet of timber or using a ~20 mm (~1") thick plank and building up with the off-cuts (less wastage) and I think, easier.
 
Well, I'll go against the grain here and say that my favourite paddle is a low angle 230cm Werner Kaliste. Works for me. I'd suggest using whatever works for you.
 
if you're used to a ww paddle and all the ways that it is used, there's no problem getting used to a paddle that is area balanced for more lower angle strokes. I've never noticed the diff - except that if no feather there is no upside down with a ww paddle whereas there is with lower angle area balanced blades.

Your stroke is much more efficient with the blade fully immersed, so it really does not make much diff with any kind of blade - unless you paddle with the blades only half in, heh heh - and really, how efficient would that be?
 
Dan_Millsip said:
Well, I'll go against the grain here and say that my favourite paddle is a low angle 230cm Werner Kaliste. Works for me. I'd suggest using whatever works for you.
Dan's comment is an interesting one. I have been using 220 cm paddles, some straight shafted, others bent for almost 20 years, after a birthing process when I used 240 cm and 250 cm paddles with gargantuan blades. Those monsters really could not be effectively used for high angle stroking. But the 220s seem to be adaptable to either ... noting that they also have significantly smaller blade faces than the mongo 240s and and the 250 I started out with.

I borrowed somebody's wing for an hour or so one day, and never really got the hang of it. That demands a very different approach.
 
Because I carry two paddles when I go out, one is usually shorten that the other - so I can change strokes/style if I feel fatigue. That is, one usually has an adjustable shaft but the other is a fixed longer shaft with narrow blade.

But what I have to remember is there so little reason to put so much torque on the paddle. I splurged during one REI sale and got a carbon fiber, bent shaft, Warner Cypress. It's the widest blade I have. I don't paddle feathered and have never had wrist problems so I'm not sure I benefit that much from the bent shaft.

But I found myself really pulling on that paddle and could feel it in the joints at the end of a long day (indicative of more work needed in my paddling style). But there was no reason to put that much "heat" on the paddle. I could enjoy the "high angle" style while pulling less aggressively through the water. Boat seemed to still go forward. GPS showed little difference in speed. Body didn't feel so beat up at the end of the day.

These days it seems the direction of the current with respect to the direction I'm paddling (or the wind direction) has more influence on my speed over water than my high or low angle.
 
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