Just underway

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by Madamfool, Jun 10, 2012.

  1. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    I just started on an Osprey Standard. (I love it already!) I've done a search but can't find the answer to my question. How long do I have to wait before I can pull the weights, 2x4s, and the mylar before I flip over the hull panels to tape the outside seams?

    Thanks
     
  2. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    The epoxy needs to cure before moving the panels. If memory serves me correct, I think you need to wait overnight, or about eight hours. Check the epoxy documentation that came with your kit regarding curing times. It's my experience that it's best to wait until the epoxy has well cured before moving the glued panels -- they are a bit on the fragile side -- especially when only one side of the seam is completed.
     
  3. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Thanks, Dan. That helps. All I can find is "let it cure" and that's not helpful.
     
  4. RoyN

    RoyN Paddler

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    There's always a little epoxy left in the cup. Use this to determine when to start checking to see if the epoxy has cured. NOTE: A puddle of epoxy in the bottom of the cup will take less time to cure than the epoxy when it's spread thin with glass so I use what's in the cup to determine when to start checking the thined portions on the glass for curing duration.
     
  5. Tootsall

    Tootsall Paddler

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    If the epoxy has not cured sufficiently then the mylar sheets will be difficult to remove.
     
  6. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Thanks, Tootsall.

    I just removed the mylar and it came off easily. I have an inch by half inch spot where I can see the tape under the hardened epoxy. Can I fix it? Ignore it? Any hope that when I turn the panels over to tape and epoxy the other side the epoxy will "leak" through the seam on to that side and fill it? The other panels look perfect.
     
  7. Roy222

    Roy222 Paddler

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    After you turn it over, fill any gaps between panels with a mixture of wood flour and epoxy. Be sure to smooth/level the filler before glassing. Use a scraper to level the repair. By the time you finish the build you will be an expert using wood "Bondo"!
    Enjoy the build!

    Roy
     
  8. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    I'm not making myself clear. Sorry about that. Here's a photo...maybe that will hell explain it better. It's actually about about 3 inches long and a half inch at its widest.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    Looks like you didn't fully wet out that section of fiberglass. If it's on the inside of the panel (or on the outside but on the underside of the hull), I wouldn't worry about it. If it's on the outside (where it will show), I'd sand it off and redo it -- it's not as much work to do this as you might think and you'll be happier with your boat in the end.

    On further seams, I'd recommend using a brush to push the epoxy into the fiberglass and make sure that you've got good coverage of epoxy before laying the mylar over top.
     
  10. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Thanks, Dan.

    It's on the inside of the hull and it won't show but I would like to fix it. Should I sand everything off and start from scratch or can I sand up to and over the spot where the problem is and then re-epoxy?
     
  11. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    I'd sand the area that is effected being careful not to sand into the wood.

    Regarding curing time information, I believe you should have received System 3's "The Epoxy Book" with your kit (at least it used to ship with kits). It has all the information that you need about epoxy curing times, etc. If you haven't read this book from cover to cover I recommend that you do before continuing on. It will give you a really good understanding of epoxy.
     
  12. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Repair is made and it looks good. More panels glued and the outsides of others as well. It was a good evening's work.

    Thanks for all the help. It is much appreciated.
     
  13. Greg

    Greg Paddler

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    Hey Madamfool,

    We all love to see build photos. As you progress please post some build photos and especially the finished photos when you get it completed. I built a Pygmy double back in 2006 and still have it. I've contemplated building another Pygmy but haven't pulled the trigger yet. Maybe if I see your build photos it will get me pumped up. Back when I built my Pygmy the build manuals weren't too detailed with pictures, so I printed Dan's build instructions off this website and used his instructions along with the Pygmy manual and it really cleared up questions I had when I read the manual by itself. I know you’re not building a double but as for the panel stitching and fiber glassing it will help a lot if you read Dan's build documents or better yet print them out and keep them in your build area for easy reference. As for the resin curing, Dan is right you should have received a System 3 epoxy manual telling you all the facts about the resin and how to apply and cure times and so on. If Pygmy didn't send one with your kit you could probably let them know and they will send one to you, I can kind sort of remember someone else in the past didn't receive a System 3 manual with their kit and they told pygmy and they promptly shipped one out to them. I beleive you could also download one off the System 3 website.

    Good luck and happy building,

    Greg
     
  14. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Hi Greg!

    I do plan on taking photos as I go...there's not much to see right now unless you like looking at panels covered with mylar, 2 x 4's, and bricks. =)

    I will certainly search out Dan's instructions! It seems like I can't get enough info to satisfy me. The is a case where more is way better!

    I did not receive The Epoxy book but I found the PDF for it online. I'll save a limb or too and read it here instead of printing it. When I asked about curing times I was really interested in finding out when it was safe to pull the bricks and mylar to check the butt seams. The only seams I've built have been made of fabric so this is all brand new to me. I'll bet you already figured out I haven't done this before, right? I do see a sea sock project in my future since I ran across a "how to" online. I can work on that while the resin cures.

    Thanks for your help and suggestions. It is much appreciated.

    Martha
     
  15. Greg

    Greg Paddler

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    Hi Martha,

    As I remember when working with the resin is I would do as much as I could in a session and then let the resin harden overnight before going to the next step. I believe it really needs a good 6 to 8 hours to fully harden before I felt comfortable handling it. This usually meant working on the boat for 3 to 4 hours and then doing any resin gluing and then calling it quits for the day and let the resin cure overnight before tackling the next building task.

    You say you don't know what you’re doing but I would bet about 80% of people and it may be higher that decide to build one of these boats has never done fiber glassing in their life or worked with resin. I hadn't when I did mine, I just had the tools and a fairly decent amount of woodworking skills which you don't need. It takes more common sense and how to follow directions than it does skill. Just take your time and read the directions 2 or 3 times before you tackle each task and you should be fine.

    I was very nervous about fiber glassing the hulls, but Pygmy really has it figured out and it is a lot easier than our fears suggest, at least it turned out that way for me.

    A sea sock huh? I installed the bulkheads and hatch kits in mine. The water tight hatches are really nice for storing items while paddling. The kit is only $59.00. I would recommend bulkheads and hatches instead of using a sea sock unless you’re really trying to hold down expenses and don't want the look of hatches.

    By the way, most people end up buying more resin than comes with the kit. With waste and the amount they give you it usually isn't enough for the whole build.

    Good luck and happy building
    :D
     
  16. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Greg,

    I did buy the hatches and the deck rigging. I really like the look. The sea sock would be more to keep sand and dirt out of the hull. For now I'm not going to worry about The Cutting of the Hatches. :shock: I would hate to get everything done well up to that point then mess it up! It would break my heart. I'm trying very hard not to think about it.

    I'm not going to scrimp on the resin but it would be nice not to have to buy extra.

    Dan's photos are excellent! It has already been a great help. Thanks for letting me know about them. It seems like I can never get enough information about this process.

    Thanks to you Dan, from all the newbies before and after me for sharing your fine work. Your boat is so beautiful! I'd be thrilled if mine comes out looking half as good.

    I'm big on direction reading! I don't want to do something stupid when I don't have to. Crow isn't all that tasty.

    I'm working of the final panel gluing. I do have a really good sense of "watching paint dry" now. I've already started cutting and making "staples". It makes me feel productive. =)

    Greg, it's time to start Pygmy window shopping. The second boat will be a piece of cake.

    Martha
     
  17. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    Martha,

    I was like you just a few years ago when I built my Pygmy kit. Like Greg, I'm now trying to figure out a way I could build another. I enjoyed the build process as much as paddling. I made mistakes along the way but I was able to recover from all of them. Take a look at my build photo gallery. The link is at the bottom of my post.

    Good luck with your build!

    James
     
  18. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Thanks for the encouragement, James!!!

    I have to head to work but I took a quick look at your launch pics...I'll get back to the others later. I especially love your cargo. =) So cute and a perfect fit!

    Martha
     
  19. Madamfool

    Madamfool Paddler

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    Okay, with just the right sides of two panels left to glass and glue, I thought I would start on the reinforcement plates on the underside of the deck. They sent me two sheets of the 3.5" so am I supposed to use 2 stiffeners per panel or is one enough? James, your stiffener photo (Days 7-8 Shortcut) looks like there are two. (Then again I could be seeing things!) The directions for the Osprey say "Cut the plate..." singular and not plural. Is there another place that will need stiffeners further along and I've missed it?

    Since the front of the cockpit is not at a seam, I lined up the left and right side sheer panels with the bow and stern seams of piece #6, then marked the position of the stiffeners on the #5 deck piece so I would know where to glue them so they line up with those on the #5. The short pieces of stiffener on the sheer panels will be at a slight angle and will look nice when glued even though no one will know it but me. Is it okay that the grain of the stiffener is not at a right angle to the sheer panel or should the grains be perpendicular?

    Thanks.

    Martha
     
  20. Roy222

    Roy222 Paddler

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    The Pygmy web site has a video clip showing the process of glueing on the reinforcements.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9u8SfQI ... plpp_video
    In addition to what is shown I would pre chamfer the bow/stern edges of the reinforcement plates. This will make glassing of the inside of the deck a lot cleaner and stronger. At the very least break the edges with a file.

    Roy