local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 cedar

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by tiagosantos, Jan 20, 2016.

  1. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Ana wants a greenland paddle for rolling practice.. Figured it'd be fun to make it together and it seems simple enough, but I'm not sure where to go looking for a good 2x4 piece of cedar. All the paddle makers seem to have their own source of old growth, blessed by fairies and hand cut by gnomes, quartersawn lumber. I don't think I need anything all that special, but.. :)

    Any ideas? I've thrown an email out to Rod at Orca Boats and I have a feeling that'll be my best shot anyway, but doesn't hurt to ask for alternatives just in case he's out of stock..
     
  2. EvanC

    EvanC New Member

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Maybe try Surrey Cedar?
    http://www.surreycedar.com/western-red- ... index.html

    I bought some cedar for non-boat stuff there; they didn't seem to mind me digging through the pile. Suspect if you asked and paid they could get you what you want...
     
  3. OrcaBoats

    OrcaBoats Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    I got your email, but very busy at boat show. I purchase some shorter pieces of cedar as needed from Edge Grain in Maple Ridge. He is closing down, sold the property and will retire if he has not already done so as I have not been out there for many months. If he is still there he will have some nice 2X4s for cash.
     
  4. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Thanks Rod - gave Edge Grain a call, they're winding down but still have some stuff left :) He says he should have what I need, swinging by Saturday to pick something up.
     
  5. Sliver

    Sliver New Member

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    I buy my cedar from Sudbury Cedar in Delta. They sell both red and yellow cedar and the wood is stored vertically for easy sorting. http://sunburycedar.com
     
  6. fishboat

    fishboat Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced


    Are you're using Chuck Holst's design? I made a couple paddles a few years back off his design. I had to laminate the blanks together as clear cedar isn't available in my neck of the woods (Wisconsin). I'm jealous of you folks..you have ready access to yellow cedar.

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  7. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Yup, planning to use the Chuck Holst files as a basis.. If Ana decides to use the paddle for anything other than rolling practice, I'll do a bit more studying to see if it's worth deviating from the design, but for now, I think a wooden plank would work almost as well! :D

    I have no idea if laminated paddles have any sort of advantages or disadvantages over a solid wood paddle, but if I knew how to make pretty laminates like that, I would! Love how those turned out, good job.
     
  8. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    tiago,

    Laminated paddles are stronger than ones made from one piece of lumber, other things being equal. The lamination is done before any shapIng in the simplest method. Fishboat's stunning paddle has some features which make more efficient use of tge wood, and employs at least two kinds of wood, upping the care needed in lamination. But with a few sawn strips of cedar and some epoxy, you could get very serviceable laminations using simple clamping techniques. A buddy with a table saw could do the tricky stuff, leaving the fun for you.
     
  9. fishboat

    fishboat Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Thanks. I only did the laminate as I didn't trust the knotty wood..and knotty dimensional lumber is all I could find. I was even going to cut up 2x10's if I could slice a clear 4 inch wide piece out of it..no luck.

    Laminates are easy, if you have the equipment to prep the wood before-hand. The woods are osage orange(tip & outside edge of the loom, osage is super hard-dense wood & holds up forever outdoors), outside paddle edges are rock maple, then cedar in the main field with accent strips of popular. Finish is Epiphanes (loom is raw wood, no finish). Glue was Titebond 3 (though epoxy would work as well).

    Once you get to the shaping phase..a good sharp spokeshave works really well. A band saw is a big help in getting the paddle faces thinned out.
     
  10. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Thanks for the extra info, folks! I read it all and my mind was of course immediately wandering and absorbing all the little bits - so I had to stop myself. I seriously need to avoid learning more about woodworking cause it's an accidental hobby waiting to happen and ain't nobody got time for that :lol: Solid wood it is!
     
  11. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    tiago, working in wood indeed will suck you right in ... but in a good way, much as working dirt with your hands to plant things does. It is a Zen experience.
     
  12. fishboat

    fishboat Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced


    Yeah..that's pretty much it. While I'm not in the shop everyday, or in some cases every week, it was never a 'decision'. It just 'is'..researching into submission whatever find interesting, digging in the dirt, hiking, kayaking, camping, designing-building stuff..it's all pretty much at the same level.

    I drew up two sketch-up models of Holst's design in 84" & 88" lengths, if they would be of any use to you (I think there was(is) one out on the web somewhere, but I didn't find it useful..so I drew my own). There's lots of layout-cut-layout-cut-layout-cut cycles in making the paddle as successive cuts remove the layout lines you'll need for the next cut... Interesting work.
     
  13. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Stopped by Edge Grain today and picked up two boards for Ana.. Not cheap but absolutely stunning bits of wood. He had a flawless 8ft long 2x8 and cut it down the middle for us.

    He said the log came from the revelstoke area and was, according to him, probably around 400-500 years old. I feel quite a bit of pressure to make good use of something like this, there is definitely a finite amount of wood like this and I'll do my best not to waste it!

    Laid up the first few cuts earlier this evening and will try to use my neighbour's bandsaw tomorrow to rough the shape up. These are really 2" x 4" and with Ana being so small, there's quite a lot of wood to get rid of, more than I'd want to remove with just a plane! Hopefully he's around tomorrow and we can get a good start on it.
     
  14. fishboat

    fishboat Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Have fun..as they say, think twice and cut once.

    I assume you found the directions for proper sizing for the person using it. My girlfriend (at the time) was 5'7" or 5'8" and 84 inches worked well for her (as I remember, arm length is part of the measurement too).

    Do follow Holst's order of making layouts & cuts. There is a fair amount of wood to remove. Using a band saw to remove (thin out) the faces helps a lot. I found a spoke shave preferable to a plane for the actual carving part. It gives more control (lighter touch) and pulling is easier than pushing. Mine's older, but this should work fine (sharpen it good..time well spent):

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...3655061&ref_=sr_1_1&s=power-hand-tools&sr=1-1
     
  15. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Well, we used the "standard" dimensions related to body measurements - which I'm now worried might have been off by a bit. She is tiny, so the "standard" measurements yelded a paddle length of about 75 inches. It'll be fine for rolling, but definitely not a touring paddle. I did a bit more reading and I probably should have gone with something closer to 80 or 82 inches. Hmm maybe I'll figure out how to add laminated tips :p
     
  16. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Just call upon 'the miracle of epoxy' - the 21st century version of the old 'wood stretcher'! :D
     
  17. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Haha.. Is it literally as simple as making the ends perfectly flat and gluing (epoxying..) Two bits of wood to the ends? Is a glued butt joint strong enough? I mean.. I guess the epoxy will be stronger than the wood itself anyway, won't it?

    I have some bits of oak that I have no other use for, would that work as a tip? Of course, plenty of cedar kicking around, but wonder if the hardwood would do double duty as a rock pusher.
     
  18. fishboat

    fishboat Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    I checked my links I had for this project and it appears most all of them are no longer are active.

    This site looks pretty consistent with the sizing I used;

    http://site.greenlandpaddlecompany.com/Sizing_Greenland_Paddles.html

    I also have a pdf file that goes into Holst's steps and drawings quite well. It's what I used..it has enough specific info to get you from a 2x4 to a finished paddle..I can send it if you don't have it.

    As for length..added tips could easily add 5 inches to the paddle (total). I'd use whatever glue you like (epoxy of titebond III) and add them via a spline join. You could use a mortise-tenon joint, but a spline would be easier. A couple pics that may help. The second pic is making the female portion(mortise) of the spline joint (safely). Cut the paddle portion and tip portion at the same time for a perfect fit. Cut the mortise first and then cut a spline (tenon) to fit.
     
  19. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    If you don't have much in the way of woodworking power tools you could just dowel the extension using epoxy, or epoxy the blocks on to the ends and then drill in from the end and add a dowel or two, which saves lining up the dowel holes.

    You could also use a sawn tenon or loose tenon (as fishboat shows) and cut the joint with a decent handsaw.
     
  20. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

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    Re: local (Vancouver BC) sources for a good piece of 2x4 ced

    Thanks for the pictures and the tips!

    Of course, no table saw, but I think I might be able to cut the mortise on the mill. I have a 1/8" thick carbide slitting saw that might work well if I do a couple of passes. I'll do some tests on waste wood, if it doesn't work, I'll try the dowels!