Might still get hungry.

Discussion in 'Meals and Menu Planning' started by Outsider, Mar 15, 2014.

  1. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    So here's the thing.

    From my last posting, I 'consumed' a great deal of knowledge from all of the people that helped to inform me, and each other, about packing enough food for an expedition on the outer coast and how to do it.

    I expect that I will use most of the ideas, to various degrees, on my August 4 week trip.

    The real problem for me is what to do in the 3rd and 4th weeks with no pit stop along the way to re-stock.

    What foods can I use that will last so long beyond more dehydrated stuff? What strategies have you guys used, along with fishing, to provide enough sustenance for such a hefty adventure?

    I am not at all fussy about what I eat but I know that I need calories; fat, carbs and protein every day.
    I am pretty good at using the environment to supplement my diet. Salal, thimble, salmon and huckleberries are abundant in August and so are dry wild peas and lots of other things to make meals and snacks out of.

    But there's a limit to that. I lost a lot of weight during last summer's 2 week trip and probably wouldn't be keen on losing twice that much on a 4 week trip.

    I would welcome any advice and information on this.
     
  2. VanIslePaddler

    VanIslePaddler Paddler

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Tuff City
    Have packed for self-supported for 25 days (completed trip in 23) and packed for self-supported for 30 days (completed trip in 18 days). Our group was two (2) people. Two single kayaks on both trips.

    Get simple. :) ............................ seriously.................... get simple......................

    To pack successfully for 4 weeks, you need to get simple.......................... (can I stress this again.... get simple)

    WATER:
    - We used Pristine (TM). Works. Each individual carry's a 10L water bag. Gather as needed.

    SNACKS!!!! CANNOT Express this more. We were often paddling 8-10 hours a day... snacks we can just eat on the fly... mix of long and short burn energy calories.
    - Nuts
    - Granola bars x 100.... While you pack your boat, stuff granola bars (individually packed in plastic wrappers) in every tiny nook and crany that presents itself. *WARNING - the glue on many granola bar wrappers is water soluable, and will disintagrate after touching the little bit of sea water which accumulates in every hatch.
    - Dried Fruit
    - Chocolate / Gummy Candy

    Breakfast - Not a breakfast person... but when we did...
    - Oatmeal / raisons - add water... long burn calories

    Lunch
    - Wraps (they fold flat on bottom of kayak - long shelf life)
    - Peanut butter / nutella
    - Salami (protein)

    Dinner
    - Starch (Rice / Quinoa / cous-cous / pasta)
    - Dehydrated veggies (start re-hydration in AM, nice and soft by dinner time)
    - Sauce (a small variety of sauces to mix & match)



    .... 4 weeks in a kayak.... :) get simple.


    PRE-Portion
    - North Americans are used to eating MORE than we actually need. We pre-portioned many items so we would not use to much. Lots of little zip-lock bags.


    CONTAINERS:
    - Collapse when Empty - pre-package as much as possible to get smaller as the trip progresses. hard shell containers are bad... soft shell is good.

    Good luck

    Liam

    p.s. - bag wine... a bag of wine (the bag removed from a box of wine) fits great into a kayak hatch :big_thumb
     
  3. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Liam's regime covers the bases well while providing some variety, will pack down to small volume, and make use of all those little crevices ... loved fhe granola bar suggestion. I think, if the group were attuned, a couple of prepackaged luxury breakfasts might be good, perhaps pancakes, maybe some canned bacon, for the inevitable storm/rest day.

    Question for Liam: no protein sources indicated for evening meal; is this predicated on catching fish?
     
  4. VanIslePaddler

    VanIslePaddler Paddler

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2009
    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Tuff City
    I should clarify there were a few extra's included... did not list every item we had.

    Yes, we had some protein. Some cans of salmon, beef jerkey (snacks), stuff like that. Also Quinoa has protein. Nuts have protein. But no steak or bacon :) Your body really does not need that much protein on a day to day basis to stay healthy...
    - To be honest I don't really eat much meat-protein. I was a vegetarian for 7 years in my youth, and while I eat everything now, I don't go to the supermarket and buy steak very often. Most meals are vegetarian still.

    Remember, my comments are based on backing for a LONG trip. Outsider is asking about 4 weeks of food. Trying to be realistic on what will actually fit in a boat.

    On shorter trips (up to around 10 days), fresh fruit and veg. Absolutly! Fluffy comfort food, complicated meals, condiments! YUMMY!!!

    Take a few luxuries, but pack SMART. If it is a pre-packaged meal in a sealed container which is half air... don't take it. You don't have space to pack air...


    Longer trips in more remote areas also require more of the other items. Better repair kits, first aid supplies, spare batteries, more stove fuel, etc etc etc. This limits the space available for food.
     
  5. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Outsider wrote:

    I am not at all fussy about what I eat but I know that I need calories; fat, carbs and protein every day.
    I am pretty good at using the environment to supplement my diet. Salal, thimble, salmon and huckleberries are abundant in August and so are dry wild peas and lots of other things to make meals and snacks out of.

    But there's a limit to that. I lost a lot of weight during last summer's 2 week trip and probably wouldn't be keen on losing twice that much on a 4 week trip.

    I would welcome any advice and information on this.


    I think there is another facet to the issue here. Seems plain whatever your daily food ration was on the 2 week trip, it was insufficient, Outsider. As well as shifting to food choices which are space efficient, you might want to examine the amounts of each type of food you took for caloric content, and pick foods which will give you more calories per day with the same volume, or less volume. Specifically, if you are content with any of the various carbohydrate choices, you might tote up the volume of 2000 calories of each, and pick the one with the smallest volume. I am betting on spaghetti among pastas, but do not have a feeling about the other options. Seems a bit mechanical to pick food this way, but you do not have a lot of reserve on your body.

    When I did heavy climbing and backpacking for a couple weeks at a time, I would lose a pound a day, and I had it to lose. We had 5000 calories a day available, but I could not eat it all, maxing out at about 3000 consumed each day. Other guys wolfed their 5000 down and came snooping for my extras. They maintained weight, and I lost weight.

    Two weeks out, it would be good if you had not lost any weight.
     
  6. Comoxpaddler

    Comoxpaddler Paddler

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    502
    Location:
    Comox, BC
    Whilst I understand the antipathy towards the commercial dehydrated meals I am not a good cook so tend to avoid trying to get inventive on trips. I actually do find that Mountain House meals are good enough to use frequently, even exclusively, on long trips, as there is quite a variety. I agree that the portions are small, but, hey, just eat more! They are designed for people who do not burn as much energy as I do when paddling. I certainly do not expect half a pack (most are said to be for 2 people) to be enough after 20-30 mile days. On one trip I ate 2 packs at each evening meal ("4" portions) and on another I ate one pack per day and took extra supplies in case I was especially hungry. Which I often was.

    By the way, the Mountain House "Pro-Packs" are especially frugal, the vacuuming packing actually makes them harder to pack in the boat, and they are more easily punctured than the regular packs.
     
  7. mstoc.co

    mstoc.co Paddler

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2013
    Messages:
    71
    Location:
    Victoria
    :big_thumb
    I am a fan of Mountain House as well. The same meal may cost $5~6 to prep, dehydrate and pack; if I factor in my time, a Mountain House meal at $7~9/bag, is an absolute bargain.

    Instead of boiling up 2 bags for dinner, I found that I can stretch the calorie count by simply adding rice (or pasta) to a single bag.
     
  8. Outsider

    Outsider Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2013
    Messages:
    156
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C.
    Read you loud and clear Liam.
    This sounds great. Just what I needed.
    Thanks