Necky Arluk ii repair questions

Schuey

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I have a 1996 Arluk II in the kevlar/carbon rib layout and it has some damage to the decks. Can anyone tell me what would be the appropriate resin for the patch. I have some Kevlar cloth to use for the repair. Should I consider anything when choosing a gelcoat?

There is also a crack in the glassed in "sleeve" the rudder cable runs through. Is the cable inside a housing, similar to a bicycle cable within this sleeve? I'm concerned the resin may cure and imped the cable's movement. I can access this through the rear hatch.

Thanks
 

JohnAbercrombie

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I have some Kevlar cloth to use for the repair. Should I consider anything when choosing a gelcoat?
Can you post some pictures of the damaged area?
Are you planning to patch on the inside and then gelcoat on the outside?
Kevlar is nasty stuff to work with - unless it's a large area, I'd be inclined to use glass (multiple layers) for the patching.
PeelPly is a big help on patch jobs and can avoid a lot of awkward sanding and dealing with sharp shrds of cured glass.

Gelcoat - waxed gelcoat cures more reliably on patches than the unwaxed type but if you need to recoat it needs to have the wax sanded off so the next layer will bond properly. Have you done gelcoat repairs before? (Hull scratch repair or similar?)
There is also a crack in the glassed in "sleeve" the rudder cable runs through. Is the cable inside a housing, similar to a bicycle cable within this sleeve? I'm concerned the resin may cure and imped the cable's movement. I can access this through the rear hatch.
Is that crack causing a problem?
Usually, rudder (and skeg) cables run inside a tube which is held to the deck underside or hull side with glass tabs or lengths of glass. If you look where the rudder cable exits the boat at the stern you may see a bit of the rudder cable tube.
 

Schuey

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Can you post some pictures of the damaged area?
Are you planning to patch on the inside and then gelcoat on the outside?
Kevlar is nasty stuff to work with - unless it's a large area, I'd be inclined to use glass (multiple layers) for the patching.
PeelPly is a big help on patch jobs and can avoid a lot of awkward sanding and dealing with sharp shrds of cured glass.

Gelcoat - waxed gelcoat cures more reliably on patches than the unwaxed type but if you need to recoat it needs to have the wax sanded off so the next layer will bond properly. Have you done gelcoat repairs before? (Hull scratch repair or similar?)

Is that crack causing a problem?
Usually, rudder (and skeg) cables run inside a tube which is held to the deck underside or hull side with glass tabs or lengths of glass. If you look where the rudder cable exits the boat at the stern you may see a bit of the rudder cable tube.
Hi John, the damage was to the top and side of the deck(along the seam). The previous owner patched it on the outside due to the bulkhead. I've since removed those and was going to do everything from the inside then sand off and re gelcoat the previous work.

I've worked with glass and peel ply patching canoes. I'd be more than happy to stick with that I just had the kevlar given to me. I understand it can be difficult to cut? Worked with gel coat, can't say if it was waxed or not. Applied a couple coats sanding in between.

The crack in the cable sleeves isn't presenting a problem. I just thought I would patch that while I was working on things.

The photos show the damage inside and outside. The plan was patches, then reseal bulkheads and finally gelcoat.

Thanks again.
 

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red kite

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Ah, John beat me to it!

Ditto on using fiberglass. In smaller amounts the weight difference of the fabric is negligible, the weight will mainly be the resin. And, if layed up to common standards, the kevlar will actually be covered by fiberglass on the inside of the kayak to mitigate the kevlar's poor abrasion resistance.
I do structural repairs on the inside with a high quality marine grade epoxy, like West System 105/205 (or 206, depending on the environment you are working in), or one of the System Three laminating resins.

Telsa rear hatch.jpeg

This is a fiberglass Tesla, but I assume that the cable routing is similar?
Is the crack just in the glass or is it going into the plastic tube? If it's just the glass, I'd patch it to prevent water seeping in eventually. The cable is "loose" in the plastic tubing.
You'd have a hard time to glue the tube. If the tubing is cracked I would just replace the two full lengths, attaching it with cable clips hold in place by the nuts of the deck fittings.



Edit: Ah, mostly redundant. sorry for the duplicate, I'm a slow typer and went to take that picture in between.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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It sounds like you have a good plan, and you've done this sort of thing before so you should be fine.

For those small cracks on the outside, I'd open them up with a sharp pointed scraper a bit before applying gelcoat. I really don't enjoy gelcoat repairs as it's difficult for me to get the repair flush with the old surface without sanding away adjacent gelcoat.

EDIT: LIsten to @red kite - she's the expert; I'm the home handyman here. :)
 

Schuey

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Ah, John beat me to it!

Ditto on using fiberglass. In smaller amounts the weight difference of the fabric is negligible, the weight will mainly be the resin. And, if layed up to common standards, the kevlar will actually be covered by fiberglass on the inside of the kayak to mitigate the kevlar's poor abrasion resistance.
I do structural repairs on the inside with a high quality marine grade epoxy, like West System 105/205 (or 206, depending on the environment you are working in), or one of the System Three laminating resins.

View attachment 11044
This is a fiberglass Tesla, but I assume that the cable routing is similar?
Is the crack just in the glass or is it going into the plastic tube? If it's just the glass, I'd patch it to prevent water seeping in eventually. The cable is "loose" in the plastic tubing.
You'd have a hard time to glue the tube. If the tubing is cracked I would just replace the two full lengths, attaching it with cable clips hold in place by the nuts of the deck fittings.



Edit: Ah, mostly redundant. sorry for the duplicate, I'm a slow typer and went to take that picture in between.
The crack just seems to be in the glass "sleeve". I've attached a photo of the end of the cable housing. I'm thinking this housing runs the entire length of the sleeve?

It looks like a waxed gelcoat will be in order. I imagine it will take several coats before I'm happy enough. I've only worked with it once.

I'm not familiar with the resins you mentioned. I just used generic boat repair kits previously. Would you recommend a polyester resin for these repairs?

It looks like some type of auto body fill around the inside of the hatch and cockpit combings. This is cracked at the front hatch damage. Could standard body fill be used here.

Any advice for resealing the bulkheads? Lexel? I know it's been asked many times on every kayak forum.

Thanks a million.
 

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JohnAbercrombie

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I only work with epoxy resin, except for polyester gelcoat. So I would use epoxy for all the glass work.
I've used a lot of WEST and SystemThree epoxies, which are probably the most popular ones.
If I need something with thicker consistency, I add thickeners to epoxy.
When the boat is being built and everything is 'green' I think polyester/vinylester resins will bond pretty well, so that's what's used for seam taping and attaching coamings, etc..
I'd probably dig a bit at that 'Bondo-looking' filler where it's cracked at the coaming attachment and then repair with epoxy.
These scrapers are excellent - the pointed one especially for this sort of work.
https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/shop/tools/hand-tools/scrapers/20095-carbide-scrapers
About bulkheads - are they glass bulkheads bonded with polyester that's come loose in places? Or were they bonded completely with a sealant like Kop-R-Lastic? I guess I'm asking if the bulkhead can be moved out of the way and replaced later.
 

Schuey

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The bulkheads are foam sealed with some sort of semi rigid sealant. I don't think there was any silicone repairs but the boat is a 96 and the bulkheads leaked like mad. A previous owner might have used it. I. The 3rd one.
 

red kite

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John, it looks to me like @Schuey has removed the foam bulkhead already?
It's hard to tell from the picture what sealant residue is on there. As discussed previously, Lexel can work for this application with meticulous prep work.


Edit: Ok, I'm logging out. I hate to be the echo here... ;-)
 

JohnAbercrombie

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The bulkheads are foam sealed with some sort of semi rigid sealant. I don't think there was any silicone repairs but the boat is a 96 and the bulkheads leaked like mad. A previous owner might have used it. I. The 3rd one.
I worked on a Necky boat where the foam in the bulkheads seemed to have shrunk and pulled away from the hull. The sealant bond broke.
One bulkhead could be 'padded out' with glued-on foam. For the other one I cut a fresh bulkhead (from Ethafoam) and installed it.
If the old sealant will pull away in 'a rope' it's probably the original Kop-r-Lastic that Necky used.
'Stone Mason' Gutter and Siding Sealant (available at Home Depot here) is the same product.
It's reasonably cheap and worked well for me, though it took a long time (a week+) to cure and is smelly.
Or use Lexel.

If you need to remove silicone traces, autobody paint shops sell a silicone remover in a spray can whcih works well.
 

Schuey

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I worked on a Necky boat where the foam in the bulkheads seemed to have shrunk and pulled away from the hull. The sealant bond broke.
One bulkhead could be 'padded out' with glued-on foam. For the other one I cut a fresh bulkhead (from Ethafoam) and installed it.
If the old sealant will pull away in 'a rope' it's probably the original Kop-r-Lastic that Necky used.
'Stone Mason' Gutter and Siding Sealant (available at Home Depot here) is the same product.
It's reasonably cheap and worked well for me, though it took a long time (a week+) to cure and is smelly.
Or use Lexel.

If you need to remove silicone traces, autobody paint shops sell a silicone remover in a spray can whcih works well.
It was a real chore to remove them. Nothing holding on to the bottom half but the top was still intact. I cut through the old sealant with a savor but there certainly is residual left on the boat.
It seems like a glue was used on the edges.of the bulkheads to hold them in place and then a sealant added to keep the water out. The glue has dried is is quite hard now. The screw driver is pointing to it.

I had hoped to clean things up with Acetone and reseal with Lexel. With the hope being the Lexel(applied generously) will stick to both the bulkhead, boat and residual sealant. It would be tough to remove every trave of the old sealant.

The photos show the dried glue on hull of the boat as well.
 

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JKA

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Replace the sliding foot pegs while you're at it! ;)

20211117_205356.jpg

Ghastly things, making you an arm paddler because you can't use leg drive as doing so causes the rudder to operate and the kayak swings from side to side.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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Replace the sliding foot pegs while you're at it! ;)
I agree 100%.
There's lots of rudder pedal info in other discussions here. Either DIY footboard-style pedals, or buy BigFoot pedals. Some people have added Stellar foot pedals to home-built boats. The last and cheapest option - still a big improvement over the sliding pedals - would be 'gas-pedal' footpegs from SeaLect.
With the better foot pedals (DIY footboard or BigFoot) you won't be able to access the space between the pedals and the bulkhead, so moving the forward bulkhead aft (making a new larger bulkhead) will give more room in the forward compartment.
Fixing the rudder rigging is another discussion - it's nice to have the rudder blade in the water, something the builders (Necky, Current Designs, Seaward, etc..) don't ensure with the factory rigging.
 

JohnAbercrombie

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Ghastly things, making you an arm paddler because you can't use leg drive as doing so causes the rudder to operate and the kayak swings from side to side.
Not only that, but you can't edge the boat (to an 'outside edge') when turning because the 'wrong leg is up'.
 
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