Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by Peter-CKM, Jan 30, 2018.
Was premiered at last weekend's Paddle Golden Gate symposium
Excellent video; thanks!
It 'almost' inspires me to buy a plastic boat (and acquire 50x more skill...)
What boats were they using?
I saw some Pyrhanas and a Wilderness..
Was filmed over a bunch of trips, so a variety of boats used (even by the same paddler).
The short boats are almost all Jackson Karma RGs, Pyranha Fusion, and the odd P&H Hammer.
Longer boats are usually P&H Delphin, Dagger Alchmey or Stratos, and Valley Gemini (liked by smaller women).
I think I saw a Liquid Logic Stinger at one point. Tom was in a WS Zephyr.
Thanks for that info on the kayaks, Peter.
Is it correct that most of the shorter and 'more playful' boats are 'not fun' (tracking & resistance) if one has to paddle several miles from the launch to the 'play zone' ?
For you, which boat(s) hit the 'sweet spot' (if it exists)?
Yes, the shorter boats are park and play boats. If there is a few miles of paddling to get to the play spot, more likely we would use longer boats. The shorter boats listed all do have skegs, which help a lot, but still not the same as a longer boat. They also have deck lines and at least one enclosed hatch, which make them friendlier for deep water rescues than a true white water boat.
On the shorter boats - smaller paddlers seem to go for the Fusion and larger for the Karma. I am larger, so have a Karma. But boat is beastly heavy, so I have been wondering if I'd fit in the largest Fusion (which is lighter).
The Dagger Alchemy/Stratos versus Delphin comes to true paddler preference. Dagger is cheaper and uses softer plastic, so flexes and scratches easier. In theory not as durable - would wear through faster. Dephin is more expensive, heavier (beastly heavy in surf layup), and survives scratches well, until you bash in the nose (seems a common issue). Very comparable boats otherwise, except Dephin is a slightly better surfer, but slightly less maneuverable (IMHO). I have Daggers (one each now), but feel perfectly happy in a Delphin. Side note - the Stratos replaced the Alchemy - Alchemy is not on 2018 Dagger price list, though dealers may still have.
If you are less than like 5' 4" and light weight, these long boats likely will too big for you. People in this range seem to be settling on Valley Gemini RM. Not as playful, and tracks better/faster than Daggers and Delphin, but there are not a lot of plastic boats that fit people at this size, so they are used for rock play.
Thanks; excellent overview and comparison.
Yes, great review of boats, Peter. I'd love to try a Stratos, but haven't seen any yet locally. I own a Delphin and have regular access to an Alchemy, and I like them both. I agree that the Alchemy is the more maneuverable boat, but the Delphin does many things well. I've done a 10-day trip out of my Delphin, which seems excessive, but was actually quite doable.
One of the things I really don't like about the Alchemy is the terrible back hatch. Are the hatches on the Stratos any better? I recall that Neptune's Rangers video from a few years back where a couple of Alchemy's had their hatches blown...
Yeah, leaks seem to be an issue with the large hatches. For perspective, if you do a half dozen rolls you'll easily have a cup or two of water in the hatch. My Stratos seems to be bone dry right now, but some have said the hatches must stretch over time or something, as they will start leaking at a later point.
That video was called Devil's Slide. of the guys who ended up on the shore, Tony had an Alchemy that blew a hatch. Bill had a Delphin, but washedupo (nothing blew) and decided to get out with others rather than fight back out. I don't remember what Mark had, and what blew (but I don't think it was a Dagger). Sergey had a Fusion, and blew the skirt.
Awesome, I enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing.
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