Gary Jacek
Established Member
Does anyone know what parts of Nuchatlitz Provincial Park were ceded back to the First Nation?
All of it?
All of it?
Nuchatlitz
- Thread starter Gary Jacek
- Start date
alexsidles
Established Member
Not quite all of the provincial park is gone, but most of the best parts are. Here is a map that accurately reflects the court's 2024 judgment on Nuchatlaht aboriginal title. (There are other maps online that inaccurately do not include some of the offshore islands, but the map below does accurately include the offshore islands.) Full text of the court's judgment is available here so you can confirm that the map accurately reflects the court's judgment.
The Nuchatlaht aboriginal title lands are in orange. Nuchatlaht Indian reserves are in purple. Private property is shown with diagonal stripes. The lands in white remain public land, including the remnants of the provincial park.
Supposedly, the Nuchatlaht are already punching in a road through the former parklands, likely for logging or other resource-extracting industry. They have also appealed the court's judgment in part, seeking to have the area subject to aboriginal title expanded to include most of Nootka Island and all of the offshore islands minus those lands already in private ownership.
Properly speaking, the court's judgment is not a formal declaration of title, partly because the boundaries in the map above are imprecise and partly, perhaps, because the court expected the Nuchatlaht to appeal in hopes of winning a declaration of aboriginal title throughout the rest of their land claim, which is much larger than what the court's judgment granted. In the meantime, the Province and the Nuchatlaht are supposed to be working on a formal delineation of the aboriginal title lands shown on the map. I suspect the parties will wait to formally delineate the aboriginal title lands shown on the map until they receive the judgment on appeal regarding the larger land claim.
For now, the Nuchatlaht do not appear to be attempting to exclude kayakers from the aboriginal title lands, at least not according to their website, which says, "[w]ilderness, backcountry or walk-in camping is allowed on the northwest tip of Nootka Island and the many small island groups within the park. There are some small developed sites accessible by kayaks and smaller boats at Rosa Island. Undeveloped but useable areas are scattered throughout the island groups and on the northwest coast of Nootka Island."
Hopefully this leniency toward visitors reflects a longterm policy of the Nuchatlaht. More ominously, it might merely reflect the fact that the precise boundaries of their aboriginal title have not yet been formally declared. As holders of aboriginal title, the Nuchatlaht are entitled to the exclusive use of their land. They are under no obligation to welcome visitors. Camping on the aboriginal lands is at their sufferance; it is no longer a right of the public.
Alex
The Nuchatlaht aboriginal title lands are in orange. Nuchatlaht Indian reserves are in purple. Private property is shown with diagonal stripes. The lands in white remain public land, including the remnants of the provincial park.
Supposedly, the Nuchatlaht are already punching in a road through the former parklands, likely for logging or other resource-extracting industry. They have also appealed the court's judgment in part, seeking to have the area subject to aboriginal title expanded to include most of Nootka Island and all of the offshore islands minus those lands already in private ownership.
Properly speaking, the court's judgment is not a formal declaration of title, partly because the boundaries in the map above are imprecise and partly, perhaps, because the court expected the Nuchatlaht to appeal in hopes of winning a declaration of aboriginal title throughout the rest of their land claim, which is much larger than what the court's judgment granted. In the meantime, the Province and the Nuchatlaht are supposed to be working on a formal delineation of the aboriginal title lands shown on the map. I suspect the parties will wait to formally delineate the aboriginal title lands shown on the map until they receive the judgment on appeal regarding the larger land claim.
For now, the Nuchatlaht do not appear to be attempting to exclude kayakers from the aboriginal title lands, at least not according to their website, which says, "[w]ilderness, backcountry or walk-in camping is allowed on the northwest tip of Nootka Island and the many small island groups within the park. There are some small developed sites accessible by kayaks and smaller boats at Rosa Island. Undeveloped but useable areas are scattered throughout the island groups and on the northwest coast of Nootka Island."
Hopefully this leniency toward visitors reflects a longterm policy of the Nuchatlaht. More ominously, it might merely reflect the fact that the precise boundaries of their aboriginal title have not yet been formally declared. As holders of aboriginal title, the Nuchatlaht are entitled to the exclusive use of their land. They are under no obligation to welcome visitors. Camping on the aboriginal lands is at their sufferance; it is no longer a right of the public.
Alex
I was in the Nuchatlitz last summer and am leading anther group on a trip out there again in August. This time, we will be taking the water taxi operated by Shorebird Expeditions out of Tahsis. The lady who owns Shorebird was very friendly and we discussed some of what is going on with the park in early May. She was in fact in negotiations with the Band, who are planning to build more formal and permanent campsites for kayakers on the Band lands. It was my understanding that this would include tenting sites, as well as perhaps composting toilets, etc. Of course, there would be a fee to camp on these sites, but on the other hand, there will be proper sanitary facilities and perhaps a pottable water source. I am speculating, but I expect that the proposed new camp site will be on the north end of Nuchatlitz Island which connects to Island 44 at low tide.
While the map above is not very detailed, it looks to me that both Island 40 and Island 44 are still in the park. These are the two most popular camping sites, and both currently have thunderbox toilets in the forest, if folk know where to find them. I read somewhere recently, that BC Parks is requesting that paddlers carry their sewage waste out with them, as the inside of these islands, where many camp, is almost lagoon like and the below tideline waste is not being adequately flushed during the summer. It appears that Rosa Island, Benson Point and Belmont Point, all heavily used campsites, are all still shown as crown land.
I also read recently that Parks Canada has put out a warning that the wolves in the Broken Group are becoming habituated to humans. This is also the case on Vargas Island and incredibly to me, Campania Island. When I was on Island 44 last summer, two wolves crossed from Nuchatletz Island at low tide, but seemed to be quite wary of me still. I hope it stays that way. This is indicative of the heavy use of these sites and the habituation of what are normally very shy animals to humans.
So, my own view, is that none of the proposed changes are necessarily bad. The Nuchatlitz are a treasure and with the amount of use, particularly with heavy use by commercial trips as well as multiple water taxi services, a little more oversight and improved camping facilities are probably warranted. I will also note that Catalla Island is also a BC Park, 3.5 kms north of Island 40 and that it too is seeing increased use. So still lots of free places to camp, but with continued increased use and arguably even some overuse, some more oversight and even fees, are perhaps not a bad idea.
My two bits worth, Rick
While the map above is not very detailed, it looks to me that both Island 40 and Island 44 are still in the park. These are the two most popular camping sites, and both currently have thunderbox toilets in the forest, if folk know where to find them. I read somewhere recently, that BC Parks is requesting that paddlers carry their sewage waste out with them, as the inside of these islands, where many camp, is almost lagoon like and the below tideline waste is not being adequately flushed during the summer. It appears that Rosa Island, Benson Point and Belmont Point, all heavily used campsites, are all still shown as crown land.
I also read recently that Parks Canada has put out a warning that the wolves in the Broken Group are becoming habituated to humans. This is also the case on Vargas Island and incredibly to me, Campania Island. When I was on Island 44 last summer, two wolves crossed from Nuchatletz Island at low tide, but seemed to be quite wary of me still. I hope it stays that way. This is indicative of the heavy use of these sites and the habituation of what are normally very shy animals to humans.
So, my own view, is that none of the proposed changes are necessarily bad. The Nuchatlitz are a treasure and with the amount of use, particularly with heavy use by commercial trips as well as multiple water taxi services, a little more oversight and improved camping facilities are probably warranted. I will also note that Catalla Island is also a BC Park, 3.5 kms north of Island 40 and that it too is seeing increased use. So still lots of free places to camp, but with continued increased use and arguably even some overuse, some more oversight and even fees, are perhaps not a bad idea.
My two bits worth, Rick
Looksha
Returning Member
I've found it very disappointing how little clear information has been in the media. I read headlines about visitors being asked (by whom?) to stay out of the newly transferred (or re-transferred, if you like) lands ... but it's been difficult to find factual information about what is still park and what isn't.
Nothing on the BC parks site, nothing on the Nuchatlaht band website.
Thanks to @alexsidles for the clearest information yet ... but with due respect I shouldn't have to look to an American for this info!
How's a well-meaning paddler supposed to respect the rules with such confusion?
Nothing on the BC parks site, nothing on the Nuchatlaht band website.
Thanks to @alexsidles for the clearest information yet ... but with due respect I shouldn't have to look to an American for this info!
How's a well-meaning paddler supposed to respect the rules with such confusion?
Wild Realms
New Member
We just spent a week out there and returned on Saturday.
The Southern peninsula (the purple tip and adjacent orange section on the above map, just across from the private properties) currently has daily noise from heavy machinery, chainsaws, and rock blasting while they put in another road to log Nootka.
We saw fresh (lone) wolf tracks on the Northwest corner of Island 40 on the first day, but no signs of it after that. We hung our food.
The Southern peninsula (the purple tip and adjacent orange section on the above map, just across from the private properties) currently has daily noise from heavy machinery, chainsaws, and rock blasting while they put in another road to log Nootka.
We saw fresh (lone) wolf tracks on the Northwest corner of Island 40 on the first day, but no signs of it after that. We hung our food.
About the change to Nootka Sound's Nuchatlitz Provincial Park... – Wild Coast Publishing
Another recent article from folk who are in the loop. There is information regarding the road building as reported by Wild Realms. I plan to call Shorebird Expeditions in the next week to see what they have to say. They are in touch with the Nuchatl Band.
Another recent article from folk who are in the loop. There is information regarding the road building as reported by Wild Realms. I plan to call Shorebird Expeditions in the next week to see what they have to say. They are in touch with the Nuchatl Band.
VIKayaker
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 67
Just got back from 5 days at Nuchatlitz and if things keep going the way they are it's going to become another Broken Group. Shorebird Water Taxi is taking large groups (non kayakers with coolers etc) to Rosa, Island 40 and 44. The campers spread out and take over the entire site, build campfires in ridiculous places and get quite belligerent towards kayakers exploring the shoreline looking for campsites. Fortunately the water taxi doesn't go to the "outside" towards Benson Point.
I hope First Nations involvement makes a difference but I doubt it.
I hope First Nations involvement makes a difference but I doubt it.
ChG
Returning Member
Best to avoid the area from mid July to mid August as it is the busiest season. We were there the second week of July for 6 days and had Rosa, Catala and Island 40 to ourselves. Weather was a bit wet and foggy at times which could explain why we only saw one other group of paddler. The day we left the area shorebird water taxi looked very busy. They do go to the outside as they drop hikers to the start of the Nootka trail and to Yellow Bluff Bay to the start of the Tatchu trail and I've heard of kayakers being dropped off there too.
They are a good service, just have to avoid the busy season as the Nuchatlitz area is smaller than the Broken Group.
I've been to Catala several times and it's always been quiet. The outer reef of Catala is a fun and wild place to paddle. Spring Island and Catala being my 2 favorites Islands on the West Coast of VI.
45 years ago I was paddling in the Bunsby's when they were reintroducing sea otters in Checleset Bay and it's amazing to see how many they are now. We saw hundreds of them on this trip.
They are a good service, just have to avoid the busy season as the Nuchatlitz area is smaller than the Broken Group.
I've been to Catala several times and it's always been quiet. The outer reef of Catala is a fun and wild place to paddle. Spring Island and Catala being my 2 favorites Islands on the West Coast of VI.
45 years ago I was paddling in the Bunsby's when they were reintroducing sea otters in Checleset Bay and it's amazing to see how many they are now. We saw hundreds of them on this trip.
a_c
Established Member
Just got back from a trip around Nootka Island; we stopped in Nuchatlitz for 2 days. Here are some updates:
Island 44: this sign was posted prominently at the campsite on the spit that connects to Nootka Island - not sure if it was posted elsewhere; we paddled past Island 40 and thought we could see a sign but we didn't go ashore.
The information on the website indicates a $25 per person/per day fee for accessing this territory.
We ran into some other paddlers who told us the campsite on Rosa was closed due to fallen trees. We stopped by to check it out; it has been impacted by several trees that have fallen across the beach. A sign by BC Parks advises people to stay clear:
The tips of the trees were cut off and removed, but that was about it. You can easily walk into the uplands sites, but the trees remain strewn across the beach, and there are a few "leaners" lurking just inside the treeline. Aside from the loss of some beach space, the actual tent sites were not affected.
As noted in an earlier post, from Island 44 we could hear steady chainsaws and machinery noises coming from the direction of Port Langford.
There was still a surprising amount of traffic (kayakers) for early September; we passed a tent on Catala, saw a group of 4 or 5 boats on Island 40, saw 2 people on a month-long coastal tour on 44, and came across a group of 10+ paddlers that were staying at Flynn's Cove and day tripping in the area.
Island 44: this sign was posted prominently at the campsite on the spit that connects to Nootka Island - not sure if it was posted elsewhere; we paddled past Island 40 and thought we could see a sign but we didn't go ashore.
The information on the website indicates a $25 per person/per day fee for accessing this territory.
We ran into some other paddlers who told us the campsite on Rosa was closed due to fallen trees. We stopped by to check it out; it has been impacted by several trees that have fallen across the beach. A sign by BC Parks advises people to stay clear:
The tips of the trees were cut off and removed, but that was about it. You can easily walk into the uplands sites, but the trees remain strewn across the beach, and there are a few "leaners" lurking just inside the treeline. Aside from the loss of some beach space, the actual tent sites were not affected.
As noted in an earlier post, from Island 44 we could hear steady chainsaws and machinery noises coming from the direction of Port Langford.
There was still a surprising amount of traffic (kayakers) for early September; we passed a tent on Catala, saw a group of 4 or 5 boats on Island 40, saw 2 people on a month-long coastal tour on 44, and came across a group of 10+ paddlers that were staying at Flynn's Cove and day tripping in the area.
Gary Jacek
Established Member
Thanks A_C for posting the photo of the sign, web site and phone number to contact.
Flynn Cove cabins were recently sold to the First Nation. I wonder if in addition to the cost of staying at Flynn Cove, you must also pay the $25/person/day fee to access the former BC Parkland.
Flynn Cove cabins were recently sold to the First Nation. I wonder if in addition to the cost of staying at Flynn Cove, you must also pay the $25/person/day fee to access the former BC Parkland.
I was out there about 3 weeks ago. With respect to the purchase of Flynn Cove, I was told by a local about a month ago, that the Nuchatl band plans to use it as a healing centre. They have built a road to the former village site at Nuchatlit and hope to build cabins on the old site for use by band members, particularly elders. That's what I heard from someone who works with the band routinely.
The only part of the parkland that was routinely used as a campsite that is currently subject to the $25 fee is Wayash Island which is connected to the old village site by a sand bar at low tide. The next Island north Chuash is still park land and you can camp on it. The outer islets Rosa Island and Belmont and Benson Points inside Nuchatlitz inlets, also camping popular sites are still park land. There were less than 20 people out there during our entire week out. Ten of whom were a guided group with Spirit of the West Adventures. Two couples were camping on Wayash and paying the first nation to do so. Chuash, which is a great site in calmer weather was unused, as was Catalla. We had the whole place pretty much to ourselves with the exception of one night with the guided group on Rosa.
Cheers Rick
Rick
The only part of the parkland that was routinely used as a campsite that is currently subject to the $25 fee is Wayash Island which is connected to the old village site by a sand bar at low tide. The next Island north Chuash is still park land and you can camp on it. The outer islets Rosa Island and Belmont and Benson Points inside Nuchatlitz inlets, also camping popular sites are still park land. There were less than 20 people out there during our entire week out. Ten of whom were a guided group with Spirit of the West Adventures. Two couples were camping on Wayash and paying the first nation to do so. Chuash, which is a great site in calmer weather was unused, as was Catalla. We had the whole place pretty much to ourselves with the exception of one night with the guided group on Rosa.
Cheers Rick
Rick
ELS
Established Member
Thanks for the updates!
CPS
Premier Member
alexsidles
Established Member
The Nuchatlaht First Nation is a very small Band, with only 156 members currently. Their Band Office is in Campbell River, built in 2012. After their first win in the Courts in 2024, they began to reoccupy the old village site in the Nuchatlitz. Bought out Fluynn's Cove to use for a healing centre and built a road from there to the old Nuchatlitz Village site. They have also specifically not laid claim to fee simple private properties, of which there are quite a few around the old village site.
I recall visiting the Nuchatlitz 40 years ago and seeing still standing first nations cabins at the village site, all gone now. So, yes there will be changes, probably proper campsites, toilets and potable water, as well as resultant fees. Ther is also the possibility of little bit easier access to this spectacular place. Yet much of the place will remain in its wild state, especially on the outer islands and in Nuchatlitz Inlet.
I also suspect that the territory will probably be monitored through a Guardian Watchman program and result in more oversight by the first nation government. This is no different from Clayoquot Sound, near Tofino, or for that matter, the Southern Gulf Islands, or even the Washington State Marine Parks near Orcas Island. Just different governance and regulatory bodies who's mission is to preserve and protect these increasingly rare natural areas in as pristine a state as possible.
Nootka Island has been logged commercially by Multi National Forestry Companies for decades. These companies used their licenses to extract ancient trees, many of which were shipped as raw logs overseas for huge profit. At least 80% of the old growth is gone. And so the Nuchahtl Band will likely focus on tourism, but it is still a remote area that will likely retain its character under the new title holders.
Change, that is what the world, including the natural world that we view as our personal resource and territory bank, is about. The world is not subject to human law. We are one species on this finite planet that are coming close to causing ecological damage and change that will put paid to our rise and supposed dominion over Mother Earth.
But regardless of that the First Nations are winning their cases under Canadian Law and legal principles. Law and principles that we European settlers and our elected governments put in place. That law goes all the way back to the Royal Proclamation of 1763. In British Columbia, Governments from the 1850's onward viewed such laws as mere hindrances that might be ignored for practical political purposes. Now that the First Nations are exerting their title rights under "our law", many settler Canadians are dismayed or angry. Change is always a bit of a shock, but then, the world is Chaos in case you haven't noticed.
Sucks to be us settler folk, but only a little bit, 'cause we are having to recognize the rights of others. Oh my God, that is a "progressive world view". Progressive, that's a label, Conservative, that's a label, First Nation, that's a label. What's right and what's wrong are all subject to perspective, context and world view.
It sucked to be a first nation member for the past 250 years. I for one am happy that we, like South Africa before us, are finally getting around to righting illegal acts and wrongs due to our cultural hubris. We clearly felt that we were the masters and also above our own law. Sound familiar in our current world?
R
I recall visiting the Nuchatlitz 40 years ago and seeing still standing first nations cabins at the village site, all gone now. So, yes there will be changes, probably proper campsites, toilets and potable water, as well as resultant fees. Ther is also the possibility of little bit easier access to this spectacular place. Yet much of the place will remain in its wild state, especially on the outer islands and in Nuchatlitz Inlet.
I also suspect that the territory will probably be monitored through a Guardian Watchman program and result in more oversight by the first nation government. This is no different from Clayoquot Sound, near Tofino, or for that matter, the Southern Gulf Islands, or even the Washington State Marine Parks near Orcas Island. Just different governance and regulatory bodies who's mission is to preserve and protect these increasingly rare natural areas in as pristine a state as possible.
Nootka Island has been logged commercially by Multi National Forestry Companies for decades. These companies used their licenses to extract ancient trees, many of which were shipped as raw logs overseas for huge profit. At least 80% of the old growth is gone. And so the Nuchahtl Band will likely focus on tourism, but it is still a remote area that will likely retain its character under the new title holders.
Change, that is what the world, including the natural world that we view as our personal resource and territory bank, is about. The world is not subject to human law. We are one species on this finite planet that are coming close to causing ecological damage and change that will put paid to our rise and supposed dominion over Mother Earth.
But regardless of that the First Nations are winning their cases under Canadian Law and legal principles. Law and principles that we European settlers and our elected governments put in place. That law goes all the way back to the Royal Proclamation of 1763. In British Columbia, Governments from the 1850's onward viewed such laws as mere hindrances that might be ignored for practical political purposes. Now that the First Nations are exerting their title rights under "our law", many settler Canadians are dismayed or angry. Change is always a bit of a shock, but then, the world is Chaos in case you haven't noticed.
Sucks to be us settler folk, but only a little bit, 'cause we are having to recognize the rights of others. Oh my God, that is a "progressive world view". Progressive, that's a label, Conservative, that's a label, First Nation, that's a label. What's right and what's wrong are all subject to perspective, context and world view.
It sucked to be a first nation member for the past 250 years. I for one am happy that we, like South Africa before us, are finally getting around to righting illegal acts and wrongs due to our cultural hubris. We clearly felt that we were the masters and also above our own law. Sound familiar in our current world?
R
alexsidles
Established Member
That sounds good, but the First Nation government's attorney didn't say "Guardian Watchman program." He didn't say "preserve and protect in as pristine a state as possible." What he did say was: "What about having a tourist resort? What about having a something like Tofino only further north?"
Tofino, eh? The land of hotels and summer homes? "[A] wide range of infrastructure that would allow the development of a tourism industry," including the aforementioned roads, docks, airstrip, housing, and accommodations? What a load of stewardship. The timber industry was bad enough. The new ownership's ideas are even worse.
Alex