Pygmy Borealis XL Build

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by Whidbey, Feb 13, 2010.

  1. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    I finally made the trip to Port Townsend and picked up my kayak kit today. While there I picked up a few accessories, including a seat back adjuster, bulkhead and hatch kit, hand toggles, and a cockpit cover. I forgot to get the deck rigging, I'll have to get it sometime in the future. Also, Pygmy was out of glass cloth, so they will be sending me some next week.
    I had called ahead and told them that I would be carrying the box home on my roof rack, and asked if they had plastic to wrap it in. They do. They stock plastic tubing which forms a nice bag to put the box in. I drove home in a rainstorm and not one drop reached the cardboard.
    I unpacked and took inventory of everything when I got home. All the panels were in very good shape and packed very well. I was impressed with how well it was all packed so it would not move in shipment.
    I started to lay it out the panels on my bench, trying to make the most of the surface I have to work with. I must say, it's a little overwhelming to see 40 parts laying around, knowing I have to stitch it all together. I'm sure though that it will become less daunting as time goes on, especially once I have the butt joins complete.

    I took some pictures. Here's the link: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jayste4/
    I'll figure out how to embed them here later so you don't have to leave this site to view them.

    James
     
  2. Rrdstarr

    Rrdstarr Paddler

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    Good Luck!
    You can email me directly if you have some specific questions I can answer for you.

    rrdstarr@shaw.ca
     
  3. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    Thank you Rick. I may just do that.

    I made the first of my butt joints today. Pictures here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jayste4/

    It went easier than I thought it would. I'm using medium hardener and I felt it getting a little stiff towards the last of my joints. I guess I now know how much working time I have. Small batches will be the rule I guess.
     
  4. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    Plastic and Epoxy Oops

    I ran out of mylar last night, so I decided it would be OK to substitute clear plastic in place of mylar. I knew the end result would not be as smooth, but I was willing to accept that since it would be hidden under the deck.
    Boy was that a mistake. Plastic adheres very well to epoxy. I tried peeling it off, but only could get little bits at a time. I tried chiseling it off, but that didn't work either. The plastic was one with the epoxy. So, I took my random orbital sander to it, with some old sand pads that still had some tooth. It took some elbow grease, but I was able to sand down enough to remove all the old plastic, epoxy and glass so I could start again. Interestingly, the joint held up fine all through this.
     
  5. Stumpy

    Stumpy Paddler

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    Unless you really want to see through it, contractor garbage bags release cleanly enough to be re-useable. I don't need to watch epoxy cure, so I don't worry about not seeing through it, just cut a bag into useable pieces and re-use them. make sure you squeegee from one side, so you don't trap bubbles, and use the 4mil. bags... the thinner ones can wrinkle :( , I've found that out, too.
     
  6. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Depends on the "plastic." Polyethylene releases well, as does any dacron polymer (aka mylar). Polystyrene does not release well. Sandwich bags are good. The freezer bags are better though, because they are thicker. Both are polyethylene.
     
  7. Tootsall

    Tootsall Paddler

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    I found that if you carefully "unroll" the mylar from the cured joint (you want to be careful anyway so as not to "pull" any of the fiberglass tape off of the wood) you can reuse each working surface at least once more. Since there are two surfaces to each piece of mylar you cut...... should be more than enough to do the boat.
     
  8. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    Saran Wrap works pretty good too.

    *****
     
  9. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    I've used mylar sheets multiple times per sheet and not had a problem doing so. Wonder why there is so much variation in this.
     
  10. Rrdstarr

    Rrdstarr Paddler

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    Someone on here told me aboot using "presentation covers" from Staples! Basically it is three/four sheets of mylar that are 9" x 11" to hold a report. Cut to the sizes you need. Cost less then $2.00!
     
  11. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    Just to be clear...

    I used a piece of the thick plastic that pygmy used to wrap my box in for me to bring home dry. I don't know the exact type of plastic it was, but it's a very common clear plastic. Whatever it was, it bonded well with epoxy.
    The mylar released fine. I just had to be careful to peel with the grain of the wood, as not to inadvertently peel up the fibreglass tape since the epoxy was still a bit green.
    Thanks for the suggestions above on some alternatives to mylar.
     
  12. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    At work the other day I grabbed some used mylar (I think it was mylar, looked and felt like it) sheets that were used for slides on an overhead projector. They work great. Just have to make sure the printed side is up.
     
  13. Stumpy

    Stumpy Paddler

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    You can also get mylar from any florist, that's what they wrap flowers in... and, if you buy some flowers. make points with the wife or girlfreind at the same time :D Usually, if you buy some flowers, they won't charge you for a few sheets of mylar. :cool
    On the other hand, ANY plastic will work, if you give it a coat or two of car wax first.
     
  14. Rrdstarr

    Rrdstarr Paddler

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    Someone also said on here that wax paper works too. I imagine it would be the wax side against the epoxy.
     
  15. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    True, I use wax paper to prevent parts sticking to the bench, each other, etc. Works great.
     
  16. Whidbey

    Whidbey Paddler

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    Oh Snap!

    I finally got all the seams joined and cured so I decide today to go ahead and drill and wire my first seam. I followed all the instructions and things were going great until I clamped my bow together. One of the seams let go with a snap.
    I considered pulling all the wire, fixing the join and the re-wiring, but instead I found I could lean the hull over a bit and create a flat surface to fix the seam. You can see pictures of my fix via the link below. I'll let it cure a couple days. It should hold as there is not too much stress on that seam when the bow is not being clamped. It almost stays in place on it's own and I actually considered just wiring it and moving on, since it will get glassed both sides later on.
     
  17. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    I think that will be OK. It is very unusual to pop one of those seams, if they are glassed on both sides.

    Looking closely at the photos of the seams, my guess is that you might have been a little too aggressive in sanding the glassed area over those joints. If the sanding cut into the glass at all, it will greatly reduce the strength of the glass, which is mainly what is keeping the pieces together (not the epoxy). It is better to use a cabinet scraper to fair in the margins of the glass, and to avoid sanding right on top of the glass, until the seams are wired and glued. Once the seams are glued, they take up much of the stress on the panels, and you can complete fairing any seam bulge.

    If the mylar is adequately weighted over the seam, there should not be much need to fair in the center of each seam. The relatively stiff mylar is better than wax paper or more flexible plastic coverings at getting the glass to lay flat over those seams.
     
  18. Roy222

    Roy222 Paddler

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    It seams

    Another fix: wire the seam together using doubler plates of plywood on each side of the joint. Once the boat is assembled and glassed it will not matter.
    The fix you described might form a flat spot at the joint. So check it before you final glue the seams. A flat spot on one side of the center could change how the boat tracks.
    Hopefully it came out perfect.

    Roy
     
  19. RoyN

    RoyN Paddler

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    If you haven't glued the keel seam, take the panels apart, sand the glass off of the broken joint and resplice.
     
  20. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Yeah, that flat spot business has me concerned, also. I'd un-wire it and re-do that joint ... and check the others, also.

    In boat building, it will always save you heartache and time, in the long run, to go back and redo anything questionable. Alignment for a kayak is critical; stitch and glue is quick, but alignment depends on the port and starboard panels responding in sync to bending forces. Fighting a misaligned boat through the remainder of the construction process might drive you nuts. If I could see it, I could tell, maybe, but advising remotely like this, hard to say how likely misalignment will be. Wish we could be more helpful.

    Your call, man.