Pygmy Pinguino 145 using the "taping method"

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by Steve Deligan, Sep 27, 2019.

  1. Steve Deligan

    Steve Deligan Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Seattle
    Well, it's almost prepped for fiberglassing... still have to run some tape along the #4 panels.

    Today I reinforced the butt seam and added some thickened epoxy to the ends, all exactly according to the Pygmy manual.

    IMG_0247.JPG IMG_0248.JPG

    The only thing I didn't do according to the manual is that I don't add a saturation coat to the inside. Wetting it out will fully saturate the cloth and it's an added step. To saturate or not to saturate is the eternal fiberglassing question asked by wooden boat people. There are two strong camps, each with their own reasons. I've just never found a convincing reason to do it as simply wetting it all out in one step has always worked well.

    Regarding Astoria Dave's question, I just use the System Three medium hardener that came with the boat. It's always seemed to work well. I can usually get my garage to around 65 F or so, and it will take a full 24 hours to cure well, but I've never had it take much longer than that even if I let my garage get pretty cold.

    On my Radio Control (RC) wooden sailboats that I build, I use WEST System 105/205 and it works well too. The only reason I really use it is because it's easy to get in small quantities, and it's easy to use syringes to measure out very small amounts. But both System Three and WEST System are widely used in the marine industry to my knowledge, both are quality epoxies, and both have great track records.
     
  2. Steve Deligan

    Steve Deligan Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Seattle
    I fiberglassed the inside of the hull today. Not my best work, but it will be okay. The worst bits can later be cleaned up and re-epoxied or will be completely hidden by the deck.

    IMG_0254.JPG IMG_0255.JPG IMG_0257.JPG IMG_0259.JPG
     
    JohnAbercrombie and Astoriadave like this.
  3. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Steve, do you add a fill coat to any of this?
     
  4. Steve Deligan

    Steve Deligan Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Seattle
    You generally don't have to fill the weave on the inside. I actually like to see the weave on the inside for some reason. But I do add a second coat, and perhaps a third, where my heels will land. The weave can be rough on your skin.

    Also, since I didn't do a saturation coat, I had to go back over the tops of the #4 panels. Tomorrow will sand that and then add a second coat there and a third coat on the heel area. Then it's on to making an end pour and then gluing on the deck.
     
  5. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Areas not subject to abrasion or exposed to sunlight, I do not go past the wet out stage, either.

    Areas where sand can get ground into the resin, in use, I prefer to lay on two or more coats of System Three's WR-LPU enhanced with cross linker to improve abrasion resistance and because it is much easier and quicker to apply. I've used it extensively because it is much more scratch resistant than cured epoxy.
     
  6. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Do you apply that directly over epoxy?
    (The SystemThree Product info doesn't seem to include 'application notes'.
    How much volume does it lose as it cures? (It sure is expensive, so I would hope 'not much'!)
     
  7. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,908
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    I thought I'd asked you one of these questions before, Dave. :)
    Back in the dim pages of memory and also, here:
    http://westcoastpaddler.com/community/threads/painting-s-g-hull.6192/
     
  8. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Yes, directly over sanded resin. Their General Purpose resin, and Silvertip. Both work well. I work down from 80 grit through wet sanding to 150 or 220 on the epoxy surface before applying the WR-LPU, for a decent satin finish, but underdecks, a cleanup with 80 grit and a thorough scrubbing with soap and water does it.

    Goes on very thin, done right, rolling and tipping with a nearly dry foam brush, maintaining at least 60 per cent relative humidity, up to 80 per cent. I presaturate the concrete slab surface until water stands over most of the surface, pushbroom it well to get rid of most of the puddles. That sets me up for a couple hours or so.

    I pull out just the amount of WR-LPU I expect to use for a job from the can (syringe) into a small open container, add the crosslinker mixed with water to thin the mix about 10 percent, and pour the mix onto the work just ahead of the roller, working it down to a thin coat, passing the foam brush immediately. I can work a 2 ft by 2 ft area that way, maintaining a wet edge, before adding more WR-LPU.

    This sounds involved, but it is pretty fast. The coverage is as stated on the cans, if you do not waste paint. With an hour or so between coats, I can do a large area in about 5 to 8 hours to completion. I did each side of my Bartender hull in about 10 hrs, an area about 6-7 ft by 24 ft, short breaks between coats. The paint laid down initially was dry when I got to the other end of the boat.

    Edit: forgot to mention: the pros favor spraying, but that is a risky game unless you are very squared away spraying water based finishes. With only one reducer (water), leveling is limited, and if the humidity drops significantly, you will have dry paint hitting the work. I've never had the courage to try spraying WR-LPU.
     
  9. Roy222

    Roy222 Paddler

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    362
    I used System 3 -LPU to finish 18 ft stripper. I could not get the garage humid enough to make the job easy.
    I used a very small mini roller. It took 5 coats get to a gloss. By the 5th coat I learned to not leave streaks.
    I only used the harder in the last to coats.
    The non blush epoxy surface had to be cleaned with soap and water and maybe sanded - don't remember sanding.
    I the way the LPU was priced I had to buy a gallon because I did not know if it was going to take more then 1/2 gallon. (3 quarts cost more then a gallon)
    I think I used a little less then 1/2 gallon.
    I you have the time and humidity LPU is worth all the extra effort.
     
  10. Steve Deligan

    Steve Deligan Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Seattle
    It's been a busy week and I haven't had too much time for the kayak, but finally today I glued the deck on. Phew!

    First, earlier this week I installed the foot brace studs. I also sanded and then squeegeed on another light coat of epoxy where heels might rest. I'm just not happy with how it looks and may even do another coat after it full cures and I can sand it smooth.

    I then sanded the inside edges of the hull and deck and did a number of other clean-up jobs and such.

    But finally I got to glue the deck on. Here's how it looks:
    IMG_0317.JPG IMG_0318.JPG IMG_0319.JPG

    Tomorrow I'll sand the deck, seams and sides, and get it all ready for glassing the deck.
     
    JohnAbercrombie likes this.
  11. Steve Deligan

    Steve Deligan Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Seattle
    Glassed the deck on tonight...

    IMG_0372.JPG IMG_0373.jpg IMG_0374.JPG
     
    Astoriadave and JohnAbercrombie like this.
  12. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Sweet! That recessed segment aft of the cockpit looks immaculate. All done via your double squeegee method?
     
  13. Steve Deligan

    Steve Deligan Paddler

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2015
    Messages:
    34
    Location:
    Seattle
    Ha! Thanks. But if only you could see it in person... do you see that river of epoxy that's running down into the cockpit? Yeah, I didn't either until a few hours later. Gawd... I wiped up as much and I could, but I've now got a nice mess to sand out in my cockpit. Looks like I'll be "filling the weave" on the entire interior of this boat now. :p

    I actually only use one squeegee for this. The only time I use two is on the convex interior of the hull. For the deck and bottom of the hull I just pour the epoxy over an area and carefully and gently spread it with a squeegee. I do a section on one side, then do the opposite side, and then I go back to the first side and squeegee it off. Finally I squeegee off the second side. Then move to another section. It's not too hard, but the edges are a but tricky because they angle downward and epoxy quickly runs off the sides. That's why glassing the deck is such a sloppy job.

    For the recessed area, it just takes a little bit more time, but the idea is the same. Carefully spread epoxy onto it and then gently squeegee it off without pulling up on the cloth too much. It's that bottom convex edge that's tricky. I came out a couple hours later and saw a small bit that had started to pull up off the surface, so I gently scooched a small bit in from the cockpit with my fingers (it hadn't cured too much at that point luckily so I could still move the cloth a tiny bit). Having some slits in the cockpit helps as it avoids the surface tension of the cloth from pulling too hard. As of this morning it looks good.

    This time with the deck I was using too much epoxy and have a lot of drips on my table and floor. Ugh. My biggest goof on this deck was to not tape some newspaper below the masking tape to catch runs and drips. I should also have taken the time to put newspaper on the table and floor. Oh well...
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
  14. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

    Joined:
    May 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,666
    Location:
    Astoria, Oregon, USA
    Appreciate your candor ... and some tricky wet out work, well done.