Rolling update

Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by pawsplus, Nov 15, 2017.

  1. pawsplus

    pawsplus Paddler

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    So, as I said elsethread, after getting my Greenland roll, and the offside roll, at the symposium, I then couldn't get it to save my LIFE at the lake a week later. So I arranged to attend the WW rolling class at a pool. It's complicated for me b/c the classes are at the university where I work, but I live 50 min. away. Since I can't leave my boat in the truck parked on the street for 9 hours, I would have to drive to work, drive home, pick up the boat, drive back to town, have the class, and drive BACK home. Almost 4 hours of driving! To avoid that, I asked if they could make one of their sea kayaks available to me. Several years ago they had some decent fiberglass ones, but either they don't have them anymore or they didn't want to risk it in the pool, b/c they brought me an insanely wide Necky something-or-other (poly). It was a tank. I didn't think anything could make my short, fat boat look sleek, but this one did. And I sloshed around in here even worse than I do in my Tsunami. :( I shortened the footpegs as much as I could, as I do in my boat for rolling, but even when I was starting the roll correctly, I kept falling out of the boat at a certain point.

    The WW guy was really helpful. The last time I took one of these classes, I got a 20 year old kid. This time I got a grownup, and he looked at my GL roll (what there was of it, given the boat) and said that it's close enough to a sweep roll so that he thought he could help. He really did! But the boat was just not cooperating. Every time I went to drive with my water leg, which twists the torso and lengthens the top leg, that would let my left leg slip past the thigh brace and I fell right out of the boat. It would have been comical if it hadn't been so frustrating.

    So he put me in a WW boat, in which I was nicely snugged in, and I got it with no trouble. That was confidence building. :) I'm now trying to get the guy who runs the rec center to agree to let me drop my boat off the AM of the class and store it there, so I don't have to spend an additional 2 hours on the road. Fingers crossed! I think this guy can help me.

    It's frustrating that the roll comes and goes, but I know that this is very common. Dubside told me it even happened to HIM, and he's the Greenland God LOL. :)
     
  2. Tangler

    Tangler New Member

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    I hardly ever took my ocean boat to the pool.
    I found the skills I learnt in a WW boat transferred easily with a minimum of tweaking.
    Why not make life easy for yourself and just use their WW boats and get a solid roll, even a hand roll, in the pool then transfer it to your new boat in the spring?
     
  3. AM

    AM Paddler

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    What he said. It's a pain transporting a sea kayak to and from the pool. I use our pool's WW boats exclusively for rolling practice and everything transfers. And yes, a standard Greenland layback is close enough to a WW sweep roll.

    Cheers,
    Andrew
     
  4. drahcir

    drahcir Paddler

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    Paws - two items:

    1. When learning to roll (still an ongoing process) I had a boat that I was rarely able to roll. Further, I was making no progress. So I switched to my NDK Explorer and was immediately and consistently successful. But more importantly I kept with the Explorer and significantly improved my roll – especially my awareness of where I was underwater. Much later, I returned to the original kayak and had much more success, close to 100%. So in your case, if you stick with the WW kayak and really focus on improving the roll via lots of practice, this should transfer over to the Pilgrim. The inconvenience of taking the Pilgrim to the pool will likely force you to practice less often.

    2. The NDK Explorer is more akin to your Pilgrim than not. My guess is that the Pilgrim will be very easy to roll.
     
  5. pawsplus

    pawsplus Paddler

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    Doubt it. I may not take it every time, but I need to do it now. I was able to roll my Tsunami easily at the symposium, so I know I can do it--I had backsliding when I went to the lake and wasn't able to do it at all, which eroded my confidence. It's nice that I can roll the WW boat easily, but for ME, I need to roll my own boat. And it's too cold now to do it at the lake. I'll feel better if I can get it back in my own boat. Then I'll be happy to leave it at home and work on stuff in the WW boats. :)
     
  6. Man in qajaq

    Man in qajaq Paddler

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    I admire your discplined exertion of determination. Keeping patience combined with gentle disipline will bring the joyful enthusiasm needed for learning to roll.

    It took me a l o n g time to get a roll. Once I figured out the fundamentals of the body mechanics and was able to roll most of the time, I sourced out a competent instructor to refine my technique. From there it was practice practice practice. And then more practice. Then one day I was surprised I didn' have enough fingers to count the variety of rolls I had ticked off the competition list. With every roll I maintain awareness of continually refining my technique with gentle discpline. I have adopted the slogan 'not to tight, not to loose' in order to 'hit the sweet spot' . Too much tension and you sink. Too relaxed and you sink. (Well, I do, anyways)
    Keep up the good work!
    Lanny
     
  7. pawsplus

    pawsplus Paddler

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    Thank you, Lanny! Yes, I had the sweet spot at the symposium and then when I went to the lake the first 2 were iffy and that scared me, and THEN it all went south. I was tensing up and trying too hard. It helps to have an instructor there to ID what I'm doing wrong so I don't just exhaust myself with failure LOL.
     
  8. pawsplus

    pawsplus Paddler

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    ANOTHER ROLLING UPDATE: Did the pool class again last night w/ my own boat. MUCH better! Got the right roll at once and the left after a bit of a struggle. It's annoying when I HAD IT in Tybee, but I know this happens. It's hard when Real Dubside isn't standing there to remind me about "happy hands" or "let the paddle float before going," and I have to work my way through the possibilities until magically it works! The guy who helped me last time wasn't there but another guy was who actually did some GL rolling 15 years ago, and he had a few good tips. It's an ordeal taking the boat in, but worth it for now, I think.

    I tried the shotgun roll, which is the next one Dubside suggested I try, but I could NOT keep the paddle in my shoulder. As soon as I start the sweep, it pops out. Anyone have suggestions for how to keep it where it belongs?
     
  9. designer

    designer Paddler

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    Paws, Kudos to you for realizing "real water" can be psychologically different than warm pool water. Once I "rented" an hour of time at a local shop that specialized in WW boats - in fairness to them, they have to carry what people buy and around here - high desert territory - it's ww and SUP. They give me a young kid and essentially he just helped tip the boat up as I spent an hour waterboarding myself. The one time I actually came up, instead of telling me what I did right, he joked that I probably pushed my self up with the paddle on the bottom of their pool (big enough for one boat).

    When I went to Orcas Island, I stop by SearWater and/or Body Boat and Blade to see if I can buy something to support then and get a local weather report and opinion of my trip if it is multi-day or I'm unsure of the currents (tricky up there). When I mentioned my experience to the guy at Shearwater, he said the the first thing I should do is find and instructor about my vintage - someone who understand the movements of a person my height and age. We also got on the floor and he showed me the sweep movements and how raising my head negated the lift.

    That was the start of finally a successful roll technique I was able to complete during a winter at a pool that was about a hour round trip away each Sunday.

    There is something about the bigger boat - I watched a person in a WW boat roll over and over and asked if they wanted to try my boat. They couldn't make the roll. But when the movement is right - there is no effort at all.

    For my part, I was also using my narrow paddle. I carry a wide short blade and can switch to a narrow longer blade if I want a change. I needed to assure myself that I didn't need a "fat" blade to roll.

    It's an interesting mind game. At a seminar near Seattle, I had a volunteer instructor try to roll my boat with my paddle because I was having trouble with the "reentry and roll". He couldn't do it. I'm sure it was because he thought he "needed" the wider paddle.

    Sounds like you know - using your GP - that a wide blade isn't necessary.

    I'm glad you are having fun and actively engaged in safety techniques. It adds so much more - not in the technique itself; but in building more confidence in your boat and being able to relax in busier conditions. Or being willing to try other techniques - knowing that you can roll up rather than wet exit and bail.

    I would love to be able to start every outing with a roll as I leave the shore. Sort of a "get it out of the way" event of going over. But I haven't developed the character strength yet.

    Have you named your boat yet?
     
  10. nootka

    nootka Paddler

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    You shouldn't have to roll so quickly that it pops out! Most greenland rolls are about finesse, not force.
    But you can always tuck the end in your armpit.
    Also, there are no ROLL POLICE to stop you from grabbing the paddle near your armpit with your other hand, and hold it in place.
     
  11. pawsplus

    pawsplus Paddler

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    That did occur to me--that I can hold it to start with. I'm not going quickly--but when I turn my hand up and start to move the arm, the useful place where the blade was tucked disappears LOL. Watched a ton of videos and will try again in Jan when the pool sessions resume.

    Designer--I've named the both Eila, after Eila Wilkinson, for whom it was originally made (she was supposed to paddle it at the symposium, and then she and Nigel got "Trumped" and were not allowed to come into the country due to Trump's "issues" with the visa waiver program).