ROLLING

Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by tim_in_bc, Mar 29, 2005.

  1. tim_in_bc

    tim_in_bc Paddler

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    I am fairly new to kayaking and have been progressing through various skills but I am curious just how many sea kayakers have a reliable roll?

    If you have a roll how long did it take to learn.

    A buddy back east just took a rolling course and he was the only sucessful person to get the roll in a 2 day course. Is this typical?
     
  2. Steve_Fairbairn

    Steve_Fairbairn Paddler

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    Many years ago my exwife bought me a 4 hour private rolling lesson. During that lesson I was able to successfully roll twice, but with great difficulty. I am not athletically inclined by any stretch of the imagination so if I could do it, I'm sure anyone can with the proper instruction. Had the lessons been in a classroom environment I doubt that I would have been successful. BTW - I haven't attempted a roll since then and it is highly unlikely that I would be able to do one now.

    It is a skill that I would like to revisit again sometime.
     
  3. Mark_Schilling

    Mark_Schilling Paddler

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    I have a very good book which details quite a few types of rolls. I haven't had any instruction, but so far I've been quite successful doing the first half of a roll. 8O

    Joking aside, I haven't had any instruction (yet!) although I know (from the book) what I should be doing once I'm under. But trying to retreive that information while in the water, upside down, to complete the roll is something I haven't been able to do properly yet. I've done quite a few rolls with someone helping from the water... but no completely unassisted rolls yet. It's something I plan on mastering sooner rather than later.

    I think that, being able to roll is one thing. Usually when you're doing it to practise (or show off!), you're in sheltered, calm waters. But if the waters were always calm you wouldn't need to roll. To be able to truly roll well, I think you'd have to be able to do it in ANY condition - especially the conditions that put you in the position for which you have to use your techniques.
     
  4. Steve_Shulhan

    Steve_Shulhan Paddler

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    I read a short description about one rolling technique (can't remember the name), and have practiced a bit on calm lake water. Durring practice sessions, with my wife's unloaded Current Designs GTS, I can complete a roll about 75% of the time. It took less than an hour to get the first one, and then I was at about 50%.

    I expect that my roll completion rate using my Current Designs Expedition when loaded for a trip would be 0%, even in calm water; too much boat and cargo weight for my skill level.

    I don't think that I'm going to improve much without some instruction. I can't quite grasp what makes any particular attempt successful or not. :?

    My steps:
    -roll sideways to the right to put body in water (the hardest step) :wink:
    -start upside down, :eek:
    -lean forward a bit (not flat),
    -position left blade above bottom of boat
    -position right blade, flat at water's surface, a bit forward
    -start a sweeping brace with right blade, keeping blade near surface and pulling body upwards
    -as body comes near the surface, continue sweep, lean body back
    -pull right blade down, try to pivot hips underneath body and roll boat upright, and last little push on paddle to bring body over hips
    -sometimes it works :lol: often it doesn't :(
     
  5. Mark_Schilling

    Mark_Schilling Paddler

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    The final trick that I often hear is to avoid the impulse to get your body and head out of the water before the roll is complete. For the last bit of effort, you should be leaning back as flat as possible against the deck of the boat, and push your head into the water instead of up and out of the water. After the final 'hip snap', pushing your boat back upright with your hips, you can rotate your head back vertical and out of the water.

    That's what I've heard and memorized from the book... haven't had a chance to try it in a warm and comfortable environment yet.

    I imagine we'll be organizing a roll-fest in Thetis Lake some time this coming summer to perfect our techniques; Darren has a few friends who are very experienced boat handlers and / or instructors.
     
  6. tim_in_bc

    tim_in_bc Paddler

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    Interesting results. I took a rolling course back in February and came close to doing a full roll. A friend from Ontario just took a rolling course and out of 8 students he was the only successful roller despite the store claiming an 80% success rate.

    I watched a video after I took the course and it helped to link all the components together and give me a better idea of what I was trying to do. I am back in the pool in April for another crack and I am confident I will get it at least once in the pool so that I can practice in other conditions.

    I realize that most teaching organizations do not teach a roll as a basic skill but in Europe it is one of the first things they teach. Not sure I agree with this approach but in cold water around surf a roll is a good thing to have mastered.
     
  7. Mike_Jackson

    Mike_Jackson Paddler

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    I find that I try to practice my roll regularly - it is a great help in surf. Once in a while it does not work and I have to swim, but I find that I can right my scirocco most times.
     
  8. Mark_Schilling

    Mark_Schilling Paddler

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    I guess that makes a certain amount of sense... the likelihood of having to roll when paddling around the English Channel is probably higher than if you're paddling around the southern Gulf Islands.
     
  9. tim_in_bc

    tim_in_bc Paddler

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    Ventured to the pool last Sunday and managed to roll consistently with a paddle float attached. This is something I skipped in my formal lesson and while it allows you to cheat it does allow you to concentrate on keeping your head down and getting the sweeping motion.

    Next week I will try it without the training wheels see if the my hip flick is up to the task.
     
  10. WCoaster

    WCoaster Paddler

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    I was reading an article that recommended starting with a paddle float and then move to some custom made floats. ie. closed cell foam that you cut a slit into to accept the paddle. The concept here is that you want to mimic the paddle in shape and resistance as much as possible but get the benefit of the bouyancy to help you up. One suggestion was to make one perhaps 2/3 the thickness of a paddle float and then a 1/3 thick one (this may have to be taped on, I would assume the backside of the paddle).

    Anyway I see Surrey rec is offering a course in a couple of weeks. I think I will try it out.
     
  11. tim_in_bc

    tim_in_bc Paddler

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    The paddle float helps to get the proper paddle placement and tune in some of the other setup steps such as head placement. The danger I see is it is easy to develop a bad hip snap because of the paddle float support.

    There are a couple of good videos I found in local stores for rent which helps you visualize the process start to finish.

    This would help before the class in my opinion.
     
  12. WCoaster

    WCoaster Paddler

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    I think you are right. The paddle float would not be the best way to learn a roll but in the begining it allows you to focus more on the basic motions. Then moving to smaller floats gives less floatation support and more ned to develop the proper paddle and balance techniques.

    At least that is what was described in the article I read.
     
  13. Mark_Schilling

    Mark_Schilling Paddler

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    Makes sense to me.

    We should get a few Victoria paddlers together for a pool session some time... I'd like to get some 'pool time' in but would like an experienced roller to be able to teach me a few things.
     
  14. tim_in_bc

    tim_in_bc Paddler

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    ORS does a Saturday night session, VICKC does a Sunday drop in (6pm - 9)pm session. If you bring your own gear and boat it runs about $13 for about 2.5 hours. This assumes there is enough people going to make it a go. They occur at crystal pool.
     
  15. Mike_Jackson

    Mike_Jackson Paddler

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    There is a good one called, surprisingly, "the kayak roll" which I rented from VICKC - it teaches a very smooth version of a sweep roll.

    I have run pool clinics for students at my school on Sundays with VICKC and they are a great way to practice - it really helps to have a warm environment. I'd be happy to help show some people the ropes.

    Edited to include link to the video mentioned.
     
  16. FrankE

    FrankE New Member

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    it takes practice

    after several pool sessions I got my roll last year but didn't try it out in the lake for a variety of reasons (it was still cold, I might get wet....ha ha etc)

    my problem was getting totally disoriented once upside down. The solution was to wear goggles and sort of figure things out. The reality is that to get good at it you need to move onto the next step of doing it without goggles out in the wild.

    Well this year I am back in the pool and need to reorient myself all over again. The roll is definitely not back to where it was when I left off last year. Oh well several more pool sessions to go.

    This year I intend to practice in the lake too....
     
  17. Mike_Jackson

    Mike_Jackson Paddler

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    I found that it was important to learn and practice with eyes closed - that helps with the disorientation aspect and also reinforces the importance of "feeling" the set up position.
     
  18. DarrenM

    DarrenM Paddler

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    I did half a roll this morning 8O
     
  19. Dan_Millsip

    Dan_Millsip Paddler & Admin

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    Which half?

    *****
     
  20. DarrenM

    DarrenM Paddler

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    The cold wet half :D