Seymour Narrows Tidal Power Installation

Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by nootka, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. seadevilsadvocate

    seadevilsadvocate Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    Point taken.

    Back to the topic. Do you support or not support renewable energy projects such as the Canoe Pass project? Reasons please. Thoughts on windmills too, since you might come across them, in your paddles at some point in time.
     
  2. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    I don't have 'all the answers' :) but I can answer this one.
    A) If you have a stored hot water tank (vs on demand heating in a tube, and those have problems delivering low flows of hot water) then you need to keep the water hot enough to discourage bacterial growth. Turning the tank thermostat too low can make the tank into an incubator for bacteria and fungi.
    B) A 40 gallon tank of lukewarm water will provide 40 gallons worth of shower, bath and laundry water. The same tank full of hot water will provide more gallons of usable warm water after mixing with cold. Anybody who has shared hot water with a family/group knows about 'running out' of hot water. Low-flow showers and HE washing machines do help on the demand side.

    Speaking of families, nobody has mentioned population yet. The best thing one could do for the environment is to choose not to reproduce oneself. We're not doing too well on that..
     
  3. drahcir

    drahcir Paddler

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    North Idaho (Sandpoint)
    This is indeed the elephant in the living room. Resource consumption/wastage, pollution, and a host of other problems are proportional (in at least a rough sense) to the number of people on the planet. And if all people are to be brought up to the "living standard" of our countries, we are on the path to extinction, taking other species with us. Part of the solution is 'going green', an elusive target as pointed out on this forum. The other part is curbing/reversing population growth, which meshes poorly with growth as seemingly dictated by capitalism.
     
  4. ken_vandeburgt

    ken_vandeburgt Paddler

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,155
    I do not support renewable energy projects such as Canoe Pass. Why? You still need the coal fired plant idling in the event the wind sun and tides are not favorable. And this is ugly:


    Windfarm at Mojave California

    I would support research into space based solar and wireless transmission needed to get the power to Earth.
     
  5. Roy222

    Roy222 Paddler

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2009
    Messages:
    356
    I really hope that tidal will work in terms of economics and environment. But I doubt technology can not change the laws of physics. Who would propose installing turbines just up stream of Niagara Falls? ( The Niagara River might not flow as fast as Seymour Narrows)
    Ok, we first picked the low fruit at falls and dams to generate power. Tidal flow Is the high fruit. The Romans used tidal pools for energy. Tidal power is not a new 21 century idea.

    Now picture a huge structure in narrows where you have seen Kayaks surfing. Let that image be you image of the environmental impact.
    Only time will tell if Technology can make Tidal energy usable.


    Roy
     
  6. seadevilsadvocate

    seadevilsadvocate Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    This is an excellent reply to a rather difficult question. Am wondering what Outsider is thinking. Agrees? Angry? still digesting the info.?
     
  7. seadevilsadvocate

    seadevilsadvocate Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    Sorry, but I don't agree with you on the space based solar and wireless transmission concept. Can you provide any details that would change my mind?
     
  8. seadevilsadvocate

    seadevilsadvocate Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2014
    Messages:
    81
    I did some reading on the space/power concept. I would not support spending canadian tax dollars on this any more than I would on nuclear fusion research. If money must be spent, then it would make more sense to spend public money on renewable energy in my opinion.
     
  9. ken_vandeburgt

    ken_vandeburgt Paddler

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,155
    1. In terms of solar energy, in space its raining soup and we don't even have a bowl.

    2. Science texts from early 1960's were discussing solar power. It was all smoke and mirrors ... literally. It was all pop bottle lenses and arced mirrors focusing on boiling water. Photo voltaics didn't exist. The point being that if you don't do the research you don't ever get results. Research in space has resulted in significant technological advance even if the result hasn't always been what was hoped for.

    3. One solution to the Malthusian problem is emigration to other planets combined with exploitation of resources off earth. You'll need a reason to go to space such as building the solar arrays in space to get the technology to make emigration possible.
     
  10. tiagosantos

    tiagosantos Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    Burnaby BC
  11. Strange Magic

    Strange Magic Paddler

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The laws of physics rule out emigration to other planets as a viable solution to the Malthusian problem. The energy costs to relocate millions, let alone hundreds of millions of people with their possessions into high earth orbit or to other planets are prohibitive. And is this really a solution? Besides, the effective solution to the Malthusian problem is some form of population control right here on old terra firma. I would recommend instead of rocketing or beaming people into space, we instead grant to women complete equality worldwide, and halt their being regarded as domestic animals by a large portion of the world's cultures.

    As for the fluctuating generation of electricity by wind and solar, the solution there is to invest in downtime storage of energy via electrolysis and/or flywheels, both totally practical here-and-now technologies that just need some commitment and some more engineering tweaking. Besides, I wouldn't want to be under that multi-gigawatt microwave beam generated by that enormous solar satellite if and when Something Goes Wrong, and the beam starts wandering around like the ray from the Death Star.
     
  12. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    1,856
    Location:
    Victoria, BC
    Nobody seems to be talking about pumped water energy storage much, but it's been in use for a good long while.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mos ... ting_Plant
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_en ... e_projects

    Of course, the first step is to get the 'renewable energy' fans to start addressing reality - intermittent energy conversion (day/night,between tides, calm days, etc.), & need to store energy. I see no sign of that. Not even 'back of envelope' calculations....but never mind, lots of money to be made with 'new' solutions.
    In a world where burning a 100 year old carbon sink (tree), dumping the carbon dioxide into the atmosphere is considered 'green' and somehow different that burning oil, and when the populace is easily misled by talk of 'clean coal' and 'green LPG' , I tend to lose hope.
     
  13. Strange Magic

    Strange Magic Paddler

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Location:
    New Jersey
    You are so right about the lack of interest in energy storage on the part of even the enthusiasts for renewable energy. Those uninterested in or hostile to alternative energy technologies keep using the intermittent nature of solar and wind as a whipping boy to discourage more vigorous use. And with natural gas and oil now at very low prices, there is even less incentive for serious action.

    Regarding pumped storage, here in New Jersey the Yards Creek facility, 400MW, has been successfully in business since 1965. But the appeal of electrolysis and flywheels is that both technologies utilize far less acreage than does pumped storage. Flywheels eliminate dealing with volatile, dangerous materials like molten salts and other possibly toxic or highly-compressed materials, and can be located underground, safely away from other activity. No water is involved, so flywheels would be ideal for remote desert locales where solar capture is the generator of electricity. Likewise, electrolysis involves no exotic or problematic chemistries, the technologies of storing gases is well established, and whatever water is required can be recycled in the process of recombining the oxygen and hydrogen to recapture the energy used in the electrolysis.
     
  14. BigandSmall

    BigandSmall Paddler

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    233
    Location:
    Northern BC (FSJ)
    Nootka, sorry my post isn't on the tidal installation but on clean energy. I see the solution to our energy crisis coming in the way of nuclear fusion. Fission scares the crap out of me and I don't support it's use at all anywhere but fusion is different animal. There is a company advertising major advances in fusion while being scarce on details. Have a look: http://www.lockheedmartin.ca/us/product ... usion.html Should they perfect this technology I think it's release will have to be very delayed though as to prevent the complete collapse of our current economic system.