Should I buy these boats?

I just got off the phone with Matt Broze! I emailed him earlier today to let him know I'd bought this Express from the original owner. He's 80 years old and has Parkinson's...and I got the impression that he was happy for an excuse to talk about Mariner boats generally and the Express in particular. We talked for a good 45-50mins. Really nice guy. He said "Call anytime if you have questions, and if I don't answer after two or three tries, I might be dead." :oops: I said "I think you've got some years left in you!"

Anyway Matt said the seat should slide "easily." He seemed disturbed that it wasn't sliding smoothly; I said it probably needs a good cleaning (in addition to what you mentioned John). I can see there's some dust and a bit of fine dirt and some fir needles in the rubber/vinyl tracks. (At the moment it slides, but not easily—I have to apply "gentle force" to slide it.)

As an example of their attention to detail, he told me my boat's colors were yellow and "oyster white, which has a bit of yellow in it and matches the yellow deck better than plain white." :)

He told me all sorts of other random things, like how the Coaster was the second most popular boat they made next to the Express (I think he said they made 600+ Expresses and 400+ Coasters). then he told me about how Cam used to be a competitive runner (and held the state record for 19 years in the half-mile)...but then got into a head-on collision in their VW van with some drunk high school kids. Really messed-up his legs so he couldn't run any more—which is how he discovered kayaking. I didn't know if Cam is even still alive? (And didn't have the heart to ask him.)

Then he talked about how he paddled close to a thousand other kayaks over the years, and measured many of them and kept a huge spreadsheet of dimensions (which he was clicking around on his computer trying to find while we talked, He griped about his recent upgrade to Windows 11 from Windows 7 and how he couldn't figure it out! LOL)

@JohnAbercrombie yes, the wingnut is threaded onto the hatch cover cord. and that hatch cover was a bit difficult to unscrew, but I was able to do it with my hand. (I wonder if silicone spray lubricant would work better on it, e.g. not attract sand?)

I see why you're a fan of these boats (well, in terms of the construction because I haven't paddled mine yet...soon!). I've gone over every inch and can't find a single nit to pick—the build is pretty flawless!
 
SWriverstone said:
I wonder if silicone spray lubricant would work better on it,
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I wouldn't put anything 'wet' on the threads. Perhaps a bit of car wax, well buffed. If the threads are kept clean they will work fine, really, in my experience.
You could put a very thin swipe of O-ring lubricant (silicone) on the gasket if you think the gasket is causing binding.
 
SWriverstone said:
I just got off the phone with Matt Broze!
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Matt has always been very helpful when I contacted him. We went down to Seattle in the early 'aughts' to paddle Mariners and order my wife's Elan, then later went down to pick it up. Matt was very kind answering our beginner questions. :thumbsup:
Completely different than the builders still in business, from what I've experienced.
 
One question about the seat: how is it attached to that fiberglass platform? Are there screws or bolts down there somewhere?
 
JohnAbercrombie said:
The stern painter could be removed. I haven't seen that on a Mariner before; it may have been an idea for a tow line?
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My 1992 Express has that stern painter though rigged a bit differently, see below. The rope X is easily moved out of the way for access to the rear hatch by sliding the midshipman's hitch behind the cockpit. Mariner documentation notes the stern painter as being useful for a tow line.

PXL_20260531_162206817.jpg


JohnAbercrombie said:
I added nylon padeyes where necessary for the perimeter lines.
A couple of hints:
Try to get padeyes that are designed for pan head or round head machine screws. The padeyes with countersinks (for flat head screws) are an invitation for splitting if screwed down tight or later when a load is applied.
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On the topic of adding nylon padeyes, what are people's preferences, rivetted or screwed padeyes? Does anybody use well nuts instead of regular nuts under screwed padeyes?
 
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sthwaits said:
rivetted or screwed padeyes
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#10 stainless machine screws with washers and nylock nuts under the deck, for me.

Padeyes can fail eventually, and at that point the rivet removal is a real problem. (Pop) Rivet ends under the deck are a good way to snag gear and flesh, and for me, are tricky to install working single-handed. So I am not a fan. :)
 
Wow! What a jackpot find. I removed all that rope when I had the Express re-rigged. I added perimeter lines extending past the cockpit sides. Some instructors didn't like that. They mumbled something about tangles. For my part, I'm happy to have a line that's a little easier to reach than the cockpit coaming.

Experience matters, but sometimes, when dealing with instructors, it's useful if they are closer to you in stature and age. For example, if they use a "deck at almost water level" Greenland-style kayak, they might not understand words like High Freeboard. If they are younger than 50 years old, they may not think anything about rotating almost 180° to open a "day hatch".

I wondered about your snug seat because mine is as large as a living room - then I saw the bucket seat for the sliding pedals. That feature is worth a short-term discomfort if your body can get used to it. With my fixed (but adjustable) pedals and foam piece for a seat, I have the full width of the Express at its widest point. It's a little loose as is and a little too tight with side foam inserts - a work in progress.

I don't have the sliding seat so John is "Da Man" to follow up about that. I was told once that when you are in the kayak you can lift a little by pushing down on the cockpit coaming to unweight the seat for scootching.

As far as sliding it for trim, don't rely too much on the printed word. You have the way you distribute your gear in the boat and your own physicality. Load it up and paddle around in Lake Oswego on a windy day. Learn what works for you. For example, I read to always put more weight (maybe too much more) in the stern. On one trip, because of a change of plans, I had to load quickly and shoved a duffel that usually lived in the rear hatch up in front of the pedals. We were paddling against a headwind, and I was amazed at how well the boat was tracking.

So really: Time in the boat. Time in the boat. Time in the boat.

See those parallel bungee lines on each side of the rear hatch neoprene cover? I undid that bungee (mine also needed replacing after about 15 years) and slid a plastic hook on each side. That way, I can hook those side bungees together over the neoprene cover (right to left and left to right). That's a little extra security for the cover and an anchor for gear or paddle under the bungee. But these days I don't have anything back there. It's too easy for a wave to wash away something that's out of sight. Okay, maybe a paddling jacket if it's a flat lake and a hot day - something like that.

Did I mention about spending time in the boat. :)
 
@cougarmeat Sounds like your footpegs and seat configuration is what I'd want to do to my Express if I keep it. Pulling the seat out of my Eddyline Raven made it comfortably paddleable for me.

Because my sliding seat doesn't slide very well (need to work on that) I have no clue what the benefits of actually sliding it while paddling would be? And because I've never paddled a kayak with movable-while-on-the-water seat in my life, I don't think I'm missing anything. I'd rather just set it and forget it (e.g. have a fixed seat). The cockpit on the Express seems small enough that if I slid forward, I'd feel like the forward edge of the cockpit would be against my abdomen, LOL.

But if I can loosen up the sliding seat, I'd like to try changing it on the water.
 
SWriverstone said:
Because my sliding seat doesn't slide very well (need to work on that) I have no clue what the benefits of actually sliding it while paddling would be?
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It works most effectively with a heavier paddler and an unladen boat (day paddling) for controlling tracking.
I used it more for exiting and entering, and getting my thighs under the built-in thigh 'hooks' provided by the rolled deck (at the cleats).
Doing a re-entry and roll, or a heel hook re-entry, it sure is nice to be able to shove the seat all the way back.
 
Suggestions:
  • When scooting forward, use the outside of your feet to push the pedals (foot/pedal contact point as far outboard as possible, preventing jamming the pedal with leverage) while momentarily hopping up and pulling yourself forward with the cockpit coaming (or your paddle shaft set against the front of the coaming)
  • You want the seat in the full (or nearly so) aft position when surfing or in following seas of any size. Moving forward pushes the bow down, which then acts as a pivot point and encourages the boat to broach. In small following or rear quartering seas it's fun to find the right spot for the seat, a little foward of full aft, and the boat will hop on waves others can't catch. The rounded hull forward allows the boat to run without catching and the carved turn performance is great.
  • Research (on the Mariner website) how the cleats just forward of the cockpit are used as a paddle park. Easy to park your paddle and instantly available when you need it. Great design.
  • You're gonna love that boat. You got a screaming deal on a rare find. Glad it found a good home.
 
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SWriverstone said:
@cougarmeat Sounds like your footpegs and seat configuration is what I'd want to do to my Express if I keep it. Pulling the seat out of my Eddyline Raven made it comfortably paddleable for me.

Because my sliding seat doesn't slide very well (need to work on that) I have no clue what the benefits of actually sliding it while paddling would be? And because I've never paddled a kayak with movable-while-on-the-water seat in my life, I don't think I'm missing anything. I'd rather just set it and forget it (e.g. have a fixed seat). The cockpit on the Express seems small enough that if I slid forward, I'd feel like the forward edge of the cockpit would be against my abdomen, LOL.

But if I can loosen up the sliding seat, I'd like to try changing it on the water.
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Once you find out how much the performance of the boat changes with different seat positions you'll use it all the time. Well worth the time to investigate.
 
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