Tern foot braces

[ae6rt]

Every construction project has one lesson in "measure twice, drill once".

Mine happened with the Artic Tern foot braces rails. I'm 6'1", and placing the aft screw of the foot rails 39" fore of the back of the cockpit was nowhere close to the right position. Geez. The correct position for the aft screw is at least 9" forward of where it is. Yeah, 9". So I need to drill a new hole forward of the existing forward rail hole, and seal up the old aft hole. iow, I think I can get by by using the existing fore hole as the new aft hole, then drilling a new forward hole.

So, things will look better in the morning, but for now, I'm wondering whether I can just do without footbraces. In other words, leave the rails in place (you know, to plug the holes in the boat), and remove the foot rests.

So here's my dumb question of the day: How important are the footrests in the paddling of this boat? Nice to have, or must have? I've never paddled before, so I can ask something this fundamental.

Argh.

Measure twice. Drill once.

Mark

 

[chodups]

Must have..........

But you can leave the rails in place and build out from the bulkhead with foam. You will never regret doing that way. Way more comfy and just fills up space you probably don't need. My rails are in place in case someone smaller than me uses the boat. Then I just slide the footpads on for them. Doing that tomorrow, in fact.

 

[ae6rt]

Must have..........

But you can leave the rails in place and build out from the bulkhead with foam. You will never regret doing that way. Way more comfy and just fills up space you probably don't need. My rails are in place in case someone smaller than me uses the boat. Then I just slide the footpads on for them. Doing that tomorrow, in fact.

Thanks. I sort of figured as much. The pedals help wedge you in place, I suspect. Off to drill I go.

 

[Dan_Millsip]

The pedals aren't necessarily necessary -- but foot braces are.

What Chodups is getting at is to leave the rails in your boat exactly as they are (so that shorter people can paddle your boat -- assuming that you'll be letting others paddle it). What you then do is get some minicell foam and cut it to the shape of your forward bulkhead and slide it in place (effectively creating a thick bulkhead) -- add layers of the foam in different thicknesses untill you get the foam to where your feet rest against it. Very comfy and if you're the tallest person who will use the boat, you can just leave it in place all the time.

The nice thing about this solution is that you can tell all of your shorter friends that you purposefully put in foot pegs for their benefit (while not having to explain an extra set of holes in your hull).

*****

 

[Astoriadave]

Thanks. I sort of figured as much. The pedals help wedge you in place, I suspect. Off to drill I go.

Absolutely. You won't get any power in your stroke, and you won't be able to edge or turn effectively ... not to mention roll.

Once you have paddled it a little bit with the stock Pygmy setup, come back and ask about "outfitting" the boat to make it fit you like a glove. That kayak is a Ferrari. With stock Pygmy outfitting, you will be driving it at about half throttle, with a loose steering wheel and with unreliable brakes. IOW, it will be an old Plymouth Comet.

 

[ae6rt]

Thanks. I sort of figured as much. The pedals help wedge you in place, I suspect. Off to drill I go.

Absolutely. You won't get any power in your stroke, and you won't be able to edge or turn effectively ... not to mention roll.

Once you have paddled it a little bit with the stock Pygmy setup, come back and ask about "outfitting" the boat to make it fit you like a glove. That kayak is a Ferrari. With stock Pygmy outfitting, you will be driving it at about half throttle, with a loose steering wheel and with unreliable brakes. IOW, it will be an old Plymouth Comet.

I'd love to hear about that outfitting.

I have the hip brace kit, and plan to install it in the next couple days. Is that part of your outfitting scheme?

 

[Astoriadave]

I'd love to hear about that outfitting.

I have the hip brace kit, and plan to install it in the next couple days. Is that part of your outfitting scheme?

It's a start. Outfitting is a long story, and won't make any sense until you have tested the hull for primary and secondary stability and paddled it for a while. Go here to get a feeling for the process ... also a good source for materials: http://www.kayakfit.com/ (Click on Cockpit Customizing.)

 

[Mark_Schilling]

That kayak is a Ferrari. With stock Pygmy outfitting, you will be driving it at about half throttle, with a loose steering wheel and with unreliable brakes. IOW, it will be an old Plymouth Comet.

Hee hee! :lol:

I think my Tern 14 is something like a Fiero now... some might think it looks fast, but the 'pilot' knows differently. :?

 

[mick_allen]

if the yak is mainly for you, i would just suckitup and redrill the holes for the footbraces(or internally mount) to where ever matches what you want now. and just patch the holes w/ a tiny round of ply. this is not science, just normal building and getting used to a yak - no matter what you do wrong or need to change later will make a better paddling yak - thats what this all is really about.

the rails will now provide a huge range of options for both large and small.

 

[ae6rt]

if the yak is mainly for you, i would just suckitup and redrill the holes for the footbraces(or internally mount) to where ever matches what you want now. and just patch the holes w/ a tiny round of ply. this is not science, just normal building and getting used to a yak - no matter what you do wrong or need to change later will make a better paddling yak - thats what this all is really about.

the rails will now provide a huge range of options for both large and small.

Thanks. The new holes are drilled and old holes are being patched. I'd rather this all not have happened, but ultimately, no biggie. The boat is already on its way to becoming a treasured pair of old shoes, in the best sense.

 

[Oldpro]

Padding back from the front bulkhead

Many boatbuilders have advocated this as a better method of solidly anchoring their feet when paddling, but it does prevent stretching out one's legs to relieve a cramp. My vote is for relocating the pedal track. I also use SeaLine footbraces which I've found to be more easily adjustable underway than the stock FootKeepers. Pygmy refunded $15 for unused footbraces and tracks.

OldPro

 

[ae6rt]

Thanks. I sort of figured as much. The pedals help wedge you in place, I suspect. Off to drill I go.

Absolutely. You won't get any power in your stroke, and you won't be able to edge or turn effectively ... not to mention roll.

Once you have paddled it a little bit with the stock Pygmy setup, come back and ask about "outfitting" the boat to make it fit you like a glove. That kayak is a Ferrari. With stock Pygmy outfitting, you will be driving it at about half throttle, with a loose steering wheel and with unreliable brakes. IOW, it will be an old Plymouth Comet.

I'd love to hear about that outfitting.

I have the hip brace kit, and plan to install it in the next couple days. Is that part of your outfitting scheme?

I misspoke: I have the knee brace kit, which I'm about to install.

 

[chodups]

My advice would be to not redrill the holes.
Foam footrests are much more comfortable then those Keepers. If you foam out from the bulkhead but stop short of where your feet should be you can glue some some foam wedges for your footrests and leave an opening in the middle to stretch out in. It works for me.
Today I paddled with a friend who is shorter than I am. He used my Tern 14 for 1/2 the day with the stock footpegs installed to fit him. After lunch I put him in my Chatham and I pulled the footpegs off the tracks and used the foam footrests. Quite a difference.
It took me 4 years to foam out that bulkhead and it is so much better. I'm sorry that I took that long to make the improvement.
You may have done yourself a favor by drilling those tracks too short. Foam it now and try it. If it turns out that you don't like the foam you can always drill more hole. You can never un-drill holes. I swear, you will be doing yourself a favor.
Someone mentioned kayakfit.com. That's a good site. There is good outfitting advice here, also: http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom/0
Here's a photo of my footbraces: http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/549293245uDRqly
Jon

 

[ae6rt]

My advice would be to not redrill the holes.
Foam footrests are much more comfortable then those Keepers. If you foam out from the bulkhead but stop short of where your feet should be you can glue some some foam wedges for your footrests and leave an opening in the middle to stretch out in. It works for me.
Today I paddled with a friend who is shorter than I am. He used my Tern 14 for 1/2 the day with the stock footpegs installed to fit him. After lunch I put him in my Chatham and I pulled the footpegs off the tracks and used the foam footrests. Quite a difference.
It took me 4 years to foam out that bulkhead and it is so much better. I'm sorry that I took that long to make the improvement.
You may have done yourself a favor by drilling those tracks too short. Foam it now and try it. If it turns out that you don't like the foam you can always drill more hole. You can never un-drill holes. I swear, you will be doing yourself a favor.
Someone mentioned kayakfit.com. That's a good site. There is good outfitting advice here, also: http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom/0
Here's a photo of my footbraces: http://outdoors.webshots.com/album/549293245uDRqly
Jon

Thanks for the support.

Building the boat took a number of years, as life and other activities intervened, and it has no set of bulkheads. It may one day, but for now I just want to get on the water and put some of the building behind me.

 

[Astoriadave]

Building the boat took a number of years, as life and other activities intervened, and it has no set of bulkheads. It may one day, but for now I just want to get on the water and put some of the building behind me.

OK. Then the footpegs are good enough for now. Be sure to fill the space fore and aft of the cockpit with flotation -- otherwise you won't be able to re-enter the boat if you swamp it.

 

[chodups]

Oh. I guess I missed that. Sorry.
Sometimes I just get going and don't pick up all the clues.

The important thing to know is that every one of us who has built one or more of these things has made mistakes and while they may jump out at us every time we look at our boats they usually aren't so obvious to other paddlers. I'm pretty sure that any one of us could walk up to each others builds and quickly find most of the errors because we all struggled with certain aspects of the process and know where things can go sideways.
In the end you will have a fabulous boat that paddlers like no other. After 4 years I'm still in awe of that Tern of mine.

 

[ae6rt]

Oh. I guess I missed that. Sorry.
Sometimes I just get going and don't pick up all the clues.

The important thing to know is that every one of us who has built one or more of these things has made mistakes and while they may jump out at us every time we look at our boats they usually aren't so obvious to other paddlers. I'm pretty sure that any one of us could walk up to each others builds and quickly find most of the errors because we all struggled with certain aspects of the process and know where things can go sideways.
In the end you will have a fabulous boat that paddlers like no other. After 4 years I'm still in awe of that Tern of mine.

No problem. You didn't miss anything, and offered your experience in wonderful good faith, like everyone else here has shown me (a tribute to the list in general, and its founders). I failed to indicate I had no bulkheads.

I'm proud of the boat, and as far as I can tell, it will float and remain seaworthy. I do expect to see some water stains somewhere, in some small pinhole-like place where I missed some epoxy in a drilled hole. I deal with that when it happens. And the boat does have some minor mistakes, but out of the hundreds of steps in assembly, as you say, one should expect that. None of the mistakes challenge the boat's overall integrity or movement.

I had the boat in the pool today, of all places, and couldn't really do much except pretend I was somewhere else. One thing I did notice is that my wood paddle, whose loom is about 21", found me sort of banging my knuckles on the coaming a bit. My form is almost certainly not perfect, but how I'm wondering how I'll deal with that.

 

[Mark_Schilling]

One thing I did notice is that my wood paddle, whose loom is about 21", found me sort of banging my knuckles on the coaming a bit. My form is almost certainly not perfect, but how I'm wondering how I'll deal with that.

I use a conventional euro paddle but I found I was doing the same thing for the first few paddles in the new boat. I'm used to a boat 1 1/2" narrower than the Tern 14 and that's what I attributed it to. After a bit more time in the boat I don't seem to do that any more - so I think you'll probably end up 'teaching' yourself the width of the boat through more practise.

 

[Astoriadave]

ae6rt wrote: One thing I did notice is that my wood paddle, whose loom is about 21", found me sort of banging my knuckles on the coaming a bit.

Loom. That's the distance between the inboard ends of the blades? On my shortest Euro paddle (220 cm), that dimension is about 44 inches. Your hands should be separated about the same distance as the outer width of your shoulders, which is about 20 inches for me.

I bet you are using a Greenland style paddle, yes? If you are getting a hand separation of about 20 inches, then a GP of length maybe 220 cm should be about right. Unless the blade is reaching max width very soon, that GP should be OK, I think, although I do not use a GP.

If that 21 inches is for a Euro paddle, that is one short paddle!

 

[Dan_Millsip]

...then a GP of length maybe 220 cm should be about right.

I love it when you guys talk Canadian. :lol:

Ae6rt, as Mark says, you'll get used to the width of the boat.

*****