The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeline

Discussion in 'General Paddling Discussions' started by ryan.vande, Jun 16, 2010.

  1. bigbear

    bigbear Paddler

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  2. stuckonearth

    stuckonearth Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    It's not propaganda, Ken. How much of the coast do you think will be effected by a major tanker spill? Do you think there will be some magical barrier that will protect the sanctity of your precious all-inclusive, soon to be Disneyesque parks? Let me tell you something, it's all precious, man.

    I don't know what to say to you any more, Ken. You've come up with the same tired BS arguments throughout this discussion and several people in this discussion have given reasons, logic, and fact as to why you are incorrect but you still insist that all is well. It's not. But I'm most surprised at your stance on this whole affair considering that you paddle in these waters. Surely the beauty of this planet has not been lost on you?

    Ken_B, for what it's worth, and not that it matters, I was born in the northern part of this great country and know very well the lifestyle for which you so claim ownership of. Where I'm from however, does not negate nor provide me with special consideration of my opinion when it comes to this topic.

    We all live on this planet together and can lay claim to the responsibility of curating for all that is the beauty of this planet, regardless of where upon it we happen to reside.
     
  3. ken_vandeburgt

    ken_vandeburgt Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Use of GIS for assessing the changing risk of oil spills from tankers.
    http://www.itopf.com/information-servic ... ipping.pdf

    In the face of the information provided here, you have not given reasons, logic, and fact to show why I am incorrect.

    Your task, should you choose to accept it, is to prove that there is something unique about Douglas Channel that poses a greater Risk (Frequency x Consequence) to transporting oil by sea than is found anywhere else in the world. A picture of a Kermode bear in the woods isn't going to cut it.

    If you can't prove it to me then you can't prove it to the government that is weighing the discussion in order to make a decision.
     
  4. nick

    nick Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    I know a lot of people and myself included that would be against this project if such proof were to be presented.....

    And no, cartoons and comic stripes don't cut it with me either...
     
  5. bigbear

    bigbear Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Reminds me of the GOP front-runners all in total denial over global warming. Show me the facts they state.........LOL! And they are running for the highest office .......
    As for cartoons, they give a message that is direct......

    [​IMG]

    A cartoon on the forgotten oil spill in Nigeria, which has endured the equivalent of the Exxon Valdez spill every year for the last 50 years.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. nick

    nick Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Hardly, its amusing at best. What i want you to do is show "proof", a simple enough request..

    As to the myth of global warming its best saved for another thread. :wink:
     
  7. bigbear

    bigbear Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Well, thanks for that response Nick. Now we all know where you stand......LOL!!!!
     
  8. nick

    nick Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    I figured you would find that amusing :mrgreen:

    Anywho, off to Portland, Pender and Cabbage for a few days of camping bliss :)
     
  9. ken_vandeburgt

    ken_vandeburgt Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

     
  10. stuckonearth

    stuckonearth Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Seems to me that the propaganda mill has camps on either side, one of which you seem to feed into quite readily, Ken. Do you seriously think that the Enbridge propaganda machine is not currently working overtime? Have another big cup of that oil-flavored koolaid, Ken. Mmmm... goes down good, huh?

    You have been given facts, logic, and reasons as to Enbridge's dismal safety record. All valid and well-documented. You choose selectively to not acknowledge (or ignore) most that has been written against what you have posted. Who's propaganda machine are you connected to, Ken?

    Prove to me that a spill or pipeline disaster won't happen and I'll be the first to jump on your bandwagon. But you can't, can you? And why not? Well, Ken, it's because Enbridge's reputation and record is proof enough that they have disaster occurrences much more often than you'd have everyone here believe. Proof Ken, of sustainable on-going disaster-free shipment of oil, it's what we're waiting for.

    At any rate, I've had enough of this circle-jerk. One cannot have a relevant discussion with those who are so closed minded that they won't consider valid arguments against their (often incorrect) statements.

    And yes, Ken_v, I believe sadly, that the natural beauty of this earth has been lost on you.
     
  11. stuckonearth

    stuckonearth Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    I agree. Humorists can quite often get the message across in ways that can not be done in any other manner. Humorists who are good at their craft can allow us to think about things in ways that we normally wouldn't (or in ways that society frowns upon). It opens minds. If one is intelligent enough to "get" the humor, they will also benefit from a perspective that tends to question our foibles. In many regards, humor is much more honest than the "truths" of which politicians, corporations, and media tend to present to us.

    A revealing talk at TED.com about how comedy is more truthful than some truths...

    "Every act of communication is, in some way, an act of translation. Onstage at TEDxRainier, writer Chris Bliss thinks hard about the way that great comedy can translate deep truths for a mass audience."

    http://www.ted.com/talks/chris_bliss_co ... ation.html
     
  12. ken_vandeburgt

    ken_vandeburgt Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    There is a cost to misinformation:

    Moral of story is to be honest and factual when you are trying to stop a project from going ahead. Propoganda, misinformation, and outright lies don't cut it.
     
  13. nick

    nick Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    And its about time! These so called environmental groups have been spewing dis and misinformation for years now. Maybe if more were called to task they might be persuaded to stick to the truth and the facts.. If there was more of that in this thread instead of tug at your heart vids, links to "news" organizations with a clear agenda and silly little cartoons i might be persuaded to change my mind, as it stands now, not.

    Thanks for the post Ken!
     
  14. bigbear

    bigbear Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Yes Ken. It is called a 'Slapp' and I'm not surprised at all that you're in support of slapps. They do their job very effectively. Shut down public opposition by intimidation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation
     
  15. bigbear

    bigbear Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Just remember members, nick considers global warming a 'myth'.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. nick

    nick Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    I'm finding it amusing that the best you can do is personal attacks, and with cartoons no less, than actually coming up with substance.. Its really not asking much, honestly... Personal experience:

    We did some logging on the Eastern side of the Coastal mountains, in an unnamed area years ago, and there was a local resort that opposed it. Fare enough, he was within his rights and i personally didn't begrudge him because he did have a stake in it. He got the sierra and wcwc involved.

    The tree's that we were cutting down were no bigger than about 30" on the stump, that was about the norm for the area. The picture that wcwc published was of a stump that was 15'! Thats coastal wood, we had nothing that even came close to that size. But the headlines read how this "unique" "pristine" area need saving. The locals new better, the people reading the paper outside the area were horrified. A very effective strategy.

    It was at that point that i got involved with land use issues, Round tables such as LRMP's IRMP's. It wasn't long before i came to the realization that the greens objective was very clear, do and say whatever you have to in order to meet your objective and damned be the truth. You have to hand it to them, they have been immensely successful.

    I'm getting the feeling from the greens here that they are extremely frustrated with how things are going. Gov. is finally listening to the quite majority and questioning the ethics and morals of the extremely vocal minority....

    Oh and bigbear just a heads up, its no longer politically correct to say "global warming" we now refer to it as "climate change"... Even Suzuki use's the new and improved terminology. :)
     
  17. bigbear

    bigbear Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    LOL!!! You forget nick that in your previous post you stated...
    Regardless.......you are in denial of global warming/climate change........speaks volumes!

    You will notice their is a 15 page thread and most people simply bailed out with debating Ken/Nick on this topic for obvious reasons. Lots of substance their by many members that is simply ignored. Called propaganda, inflammatory, false information, etc. Reminds me of Ernst Zundel. Uses the same argument in his holocaust denial...."show me the facts!!".....he proclaims. Of course his 'facts' are 'right' and everyone else's is 'propaganda'. He loves giving all kinds of 'links' to his argument. Uses the same language as Ken..........."show me the facts".......you can give hundreds of factual information BUT it is all discounted. Which is why most members refuse to even engage with Ken anymore on this topic.......they gave up! It is futile!
    As for cartoons nick.....every major paper has a political cartoonist. A cartoon can speak volumes in a few words and a single image. For the 'climate change' skeptics...


    Substitute the word 'greens' with the word 'corporations'.............works both ways......

    .......but I prefer the 'greens' objective.
     
  18. stuckonearth

    stuckonearth Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Vocal minority? Check your stats man, listen to the news, read about the protests, there's way more than a small minority who are against this tanker nonsense.

    With regard to your government "finally listening to the quite (sic) majority" you couldn't be more wrong. The government is following the scent of money, not the people or the preservation of the coast.
     
  19. stuckonearth

    stuckonearth Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Uh huh. There's truth in those words. :big_thumb
     
  20. nick

    nick Paddler

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    Re: The Pipedreams Project, BC's coast & the Enbridge Pipeli

    Consider this, you 2 seem like reasonably intelligent individuals, hard working and probably trying to make your money work for you for that inevitable old age. In all likely hood you have some form of mutual fund to make your money grow... That faceless evil corporation is probably you... :big_thumb Ahhh more compromises from the peanut gallery :kiss

    And yes, global warming is a myth as any rational mind will deduce. :popcorn: