The right boat

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by pjmcb, Apr 18, 2015.

  1. pjmcb

    pjmcb New Member

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    Greetings, I am new to the forum and looking for advise. I have Recreation and white water kayaked for about 7 years. We have Daggers, Jacksons, a couple of Preception Recreational, and two wilderness System touring boats that fit my daughter.
    I am looking at building a Pigmy Kayak for Day Trips, and learning rolling. I Kayak on lakes with power baot trafffic and on big windy rivers. I am 6'2" 220Lbs.
    I have narrowed my choices to COHO 17 or the Pinguino.
    This is my real question. From my reading it is my understanding that less wetted surface....lower drag is more efficient and longer is higher top end. (over simplified) if this is the case and I am not racing so probably will never push the boat past cruising speed why would I want to go with a longer kayak, if a shorter one has the capicity to hold what I need? I ask this because all of the magazine articles seem to imply that real touring can only be done in a long kayak. I love the looks of a lomg haul but I want efficinecy.
    Thank you for any help.
     
  2. pryaker

    pryaker Paddler

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    My thought is don't worry too much about what you read, try out boats via rental or borrowing and find one that suits you, it'll feel good. All the theoretical stuff about hull speed and wetted surface is just a bunch of blah blah. Just get out and paddle. i wouldn't build a boat until you've tried it on for size and suitability.

    just my opinion, take it or leave it.

    Others here have experience with the Coho I think and hopefully will chime in
     
  3. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Pjmcb,

    Wetted surface is one factor affecting resistance. So is water line length. More importantly, length also affects ease of turning. You should definitely try boats of different lengths, beam, and rocker. And see how you like them for the use you intend. For short trips and primarily day use, my guess is the Penguino would be better. The Coho has been around for a long time, so you should not have much trouble finding one close to you.
     
  4. JohnAbercrombie

    JohnAbercrombie Paddler

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    I agree.
    If you build the Pinguino 4-Panel deck model with the lower cockpit aft, it will help to make layback rolls easier.

    I'd be looking at the Pygmy Murrelet if rolling and playing is in the plan.
    Warren Williamson (great paddler and also boat designer):
    BTW, no matter which boat you build, PLEASE equip it with perimeter deck lines and adequate end toggles (not just rope loops which can trap a hand). Most of the Pygmy pictures don't show either, and I consider them essential. "Deck rigging" is not just a few bungees for holding your pump or chart.
     
  5. Mac50L

    Mac50L Paddler

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    Shorter and slower especially if paddling with others with "faster" kayaks. As for the 4 panel deck that Pygmie like, personally I've never done that and never would. An unnecessary hassle. A curved deck is so easy and also no accuracy needed when doing a curved one. The first plans (1983) I ever worked (partially) from had a 2 piece "V" deck so that was one of the first modifications, besides the ends, different on each of the first 2. This was before Pygmie started and the blurry blue prints were English in origin.

    Repeat that loudy - equip it with perimeter deck lines and adequate end toggles (and repeat again?).
     
  6. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    Out of curiosity I ran schematics of the 2 boats with identical full payloads of 300 lbs all up thru Kaper. In other words: kayak, paddler, paddle, gear, water, snacks = 300 lb. The smaller boat gets no love.
    Here's the results: [note - these are derived from schematic representations of the 2 boats according to my eye]

    So comparing the 2, if most paddling is below 3 knots, the smaller gives less drag; above 3 knots, the larger gives less drag.

    **

    Mac50L, as far as one panel vs multi panel decks, my preference is choice - they do take longer, but I like the greater shape possibilities. Heck, one of my kayak designs has 8 or 9 panels to centerline (ie 16-18 deck side to side). But you know, "Vive la difference!"

    But what were the blurry blueprints of? A Granta? do you still have them?
     
  7. Mac50L

    Mac50L Paddler

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    The blueprints, yes somewhere and could possibly put my hands on them. They were Kayel from memory or that I think was how it was spelled. The first was for my daughter's 10th birthday, delivered home at mid night and unpainted - a feature (a feature is a mistake for which we have a reason/excuse). "It isn't painted so you can chose the colour." I said. I called it the Coastal and built one for myself before we went on holiday that summer. A least one built in Auckland and 2 to the original plans, before mine, and down here.

    Changes to start with, fitted bulkheads, 2, not like Derek Hutchinson who had to have a near disaster to learn that, dinghy sailing had long ago taught me the importance of floatation compartments. Curved decks instead of "V" deck. Sweeping bow and stern instead of plum.

    A few years later a bigger design, the Seaward (before the Seaward Canadian company existed as far as I know) was built by 4 of us and a little later a 5th. Longer, less deadrise, better bow shape and a better stern for fitting a rudder to, 3 bulkheads. Eventually this led to the first Mac50, a little shorter, built by my partner, "Stand on these scales, stand beside this tape measure, cut along that dotted line, etc." Possibly over 30 built. The Mac50L is a narrow version, 510 cm beam.

    Incidentally I don't specifically advise any for the original OP, a bit tall and heavy though the Seaward would do, and a Mac50 could be modded to fit.
     
  8. Astoriadave

    Astoriadave Paddler

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    Mac50L wrote: The Mac50L is a narrow version, 510 cm beam.

    Gotta be a missing decimal point, right? Fifty one cms beam is a close to 20 inches. That is narrow.
     
  9. Mac50L

    Mac50L Paddler

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    Oops, yes a decimal point missing or 510 mm. That's right, narrow. Narrow and fast and 5 metres long

    The idea being a good fast boat for a short, light woman, presuming most men are taller and heavier. So I paddle it at 183 cm (6') and ~67 kg (150 lb). Oh well.... Another reason to use a GP with the buoyancy it gives when not paddling fast. It is actually more stable than my previous kayak with a tortured ply hull, looking like a K1 when inverted. I suspect my instinctive bracing skills are fairly high.
     
  10. mick_allen

    mick_allen Paddler & Moderator

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    Well assuming we've covered most of the concerns of the pcjmb-
    Alex, (or Sandy? as bad as me with mick and mike - but I get called a lot worse too!) is this sorta that first boat? I think this is the Granta Kayel Canadian, but am not positive:
    [partly from http://evecom.nl/Restverkoop/R.V.Kanos.+.htm]
    and what was that 3rd bulkhead for - a dayhatch?
     
  11. Mac50L

    Mac50L Paddler

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    Yes, known as Sandy as my father was Alexander and his father was Sandy and .... Note that Alexander is Sandros (Alexsandros) in Greek and Alexis in Russian and also as Sasha and Alistair and a whole list of other spellings/versions. Makes Mike or Mick seem plain.....

    Yes, looks very much like that though its origins as far as I know were in England, Kayel. From http://www.classicboat.co.uk/forums/sho ... p?t=101069 - "Ken Littledyke sadly passed away a few years ago after retirement from the then manufacturer of Kayel Kits, Granta Boats, Ramsey, Cambs."

    I was given a very rough blue print. That's got to date it, when did anyone here see a real blue print last? I think you will find the deadrise is 20 degrees. I've gone to 15 on the Mac50 and 10 on my double which was near one of those first ones with half a sheet of ply in the middle. This meant a reasonably narrow double which works well.

    The Seaward was about 5.2 metres, a big boat and with the length of aft deck we decided to split the aft volume to two areas, hence the third bulkhead. A big hatch aft of the cockpit and a smaller one right aft. For deck support I've now gone to laminated deck beams, a 20 mm squre of timber cut to 3 strips then bent over a bit of rough MDF, glued and clamped down. Usually two diameters, and then each piece cut into two to give 4 deckbeams. This would probably mean I'd not do 3 bulkheads again.