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 Post subject: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 2:13 pm 
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Location: coastal BC
I'm preparing to acquire a kayak for the purposes of travelling along the BC coast (among the gulf islands and the lower mainland mostly), and beyond transportation, to explore as much as curiosity calls.

Although I grew up on the coast I have little experience with kayaks. My research suggests that a Mariner is likely to suit me well. I like what I've read about them and their makers; however, I've never actually seen one in person. I would be pleased to find someone in the Vancouver area who would show me theirs. I'm most interested in the Express.

I'm also planning to experiment with kite propulsion. I've read some posts here which favour sails, and I may decide that they're better for my purposes too, but I remain interested in at least testing some kites. I'm planning to build a NPW5 for use with a reel. I have communicated with someone who has been using such a system successfully for many years.

Let me preempt warnings about letting the boat carry on without me.

Comments?


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Location: Coquitlam,BC
Welcome!
My 2 cents on Mariners : Chances are,if you're set on getting a Mariner and nothing but, you may be waiting a long long time to find one if you're in BC.Having seen a few that people own,including an Express, seeing one for sale is RARE(though it happens once in a blue moon). Especially since you're new(no offence), you should keep your options open and look at as many boats as you can. Highly recommend the demo day coming up at Deep Cove.
Also, for kite propulsion(or any sort of a sail), you're probably better off with a boat with a rudder,since your hands will probably be a bit busy to steer.Most Mariners,including the Express, are rudderless. Heard of people using a small-medium "trainer" kites meant for learning kiteboarding,but not sure of actual success rates....
I wouldn't be too concerned with the boat sailing away from me into the sunset in case of a capsize and swimming since I'm sure that
A) the boat will be heavy and sluggish when full of water,
B) upside down, and
C) the kite will probably fall into water sooner than later.
The one thing that I would be concerned about is getting tangled up in the lines.


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:35 pm
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Location: coastal BC
Thanks for your reply. I didn't know about the demo day.

Apparently, someone died in the straight after their kayak and kite kept going without them.

Options are open.


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 2:33 am 
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 4:00 pm
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Location: Astoria, Oregon, USA
Yeah, I recall that. Older guy, in a Klepper, maybe? Up by Denman, maybe 5-6 years ago?

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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Tue May 11, 2010 5:11 am 
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In the analysis of a kite-sailing mishap that ended in the death of the kayaker, Sea Kayaker Magazine noted in their August 2001 issue, "If the wind builds while the kite is in the air, it may be very difficult - if not impossible - to reel in ... a tethered knife with a blunt point and edge serration should always be available..."

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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:10 am 
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Location: The North Shore of Massa-who-setts
any sort of dual or quad line kite is going to be much more frustration than you can imagine......

personally i use (and was a tester for this too) the Kayakite made by New Tech Kites: http://www.newtechkites.com/ntk_product ... PSKU=55380
it is a one line kite that is easy to launch and to put back away....the bag would lie on your deck and is designed to easily allow the kite to slide back in to it.
good for down wind runs - maybe a bit of a cross wind run if you have a rudder....

no matter what make certain you have a knife....

your friendly kite & kayak guy....
rob


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Sat May 15, 2010 1:37 pm 
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Location: Burien, WA
sent you a PM. Friend has a Mariner Express for sale.


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:40 am 
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Location: Victoria, British Columbia since 1955
I have used a small parafoil successfully on a few occasions - the secret was using a fishing rod to launch the kite, keeping it out of the water during launch. However it had a very limited window of useability - below 15 knots, not enough wind, and above 21 knots, too much - actually dangerous. For sheer flexibility I prefer a large golf umbrella these days, for down-wind sailing, sun-protection, and setting up camp in torrential downpours. The Gustbuster brand is the best with extra heavy fibreglass rods. It is very fast to stowaway when a squall takes you by surprise.
My friend tried one of the new umbrella-like kayak sails with the clear plastic see-through window, but also switched back to a reinforeced golf umbrella. It was too finicky to put up and down. Umbrellas rule in the easy-to-use department, and can be reinforced with extra line to prevent implosions. Chris


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 9:03 am 
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Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 12:35 pm
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Location: coastal BC
Chris_Hvid wrote:
[...] a large golf umbrella [...]


Thanks, I might carry one in any case (even if a kite works for me).


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 10:32 am 
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Location: coastal BC
I'm preparing to build some kites, at least one four-line NPW, and one single-line kite.

I thought I should post in case there are any unwanted kites out there; please PM me if you have one to sell.

Rob, I'm curious as to how the Kayakite performs relative to a Sutton flow form.


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:10 am 
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Location: Comox Valley, BC
Askye, I don't have a kite, but this one is on used C/V
http://www.usedcourtenaycomox.com/class ... e_11225577

Chris, do you know of anywhere in BC that sells the Gustbuster umbrellas?
My old "Snap-on Tools" beach umbrella is getting a little tattered and I've been looking for a worthy replacement for a couple of years.
Bought a pair of "Callaway" golf umbrellas at Costco last year: blew both of them to shreds in the first 5 minutes of use and used "old faithful" to sail home. Callaways claimed to be good for 40+ MPH winds but I have to assume that's in the other direction. :mrgreen:
The S/O umbrella now has a couple of windows...less thrust, but I can see where I'm going :big_thumb It's future may be somewhat limited. :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:52 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:11 am
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what size umbrella are you using chris ?

http://www.gustbuster.com/products.htm


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:54 am 
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Location: The North Shore of Massa-who-setts
askye wrote:
I'm preparing to build some kites, at least one four-line NPW, and one single-line kite.

I thought I should post in case there are any unwanted kites out there; please PM me if you have one to sell.

Rob, I'm curious as to how the Kayakite performs relative to a Sutton flow form.


The kayakite is going to be easier to handle overall.

big difference:
a Sutton flow form, or any parafoil kite, is going to be air inflated....meaning air is going ot flow in and then it will fill the space giving the kite its shape. (well duh i know)....but that also means from a safety view that water can do the same thing...and if a foil kite hits the water it will fill up pretty quickly....then you pulling it in is going to be very had as not only are you dragging a bag full of water, but you are also essentially going to be "flying" the kite in the water....water currents flow just like wind does...so...you will be pulling in a big wet heavy thing that will be fighting you every second....

the Kayakite is a sled based kite. It has a couple of flexible rods that run top to bottom to give the kite its shape....the rest of the kite is a single layer of material (there are three cells that are 3d - one at each side and one in the center - but these are opened ended to give the kite more stability)..if it hits the water it is MUCh easier to retrieve...

The suttons come in many sizes...from 4square feet to 750 square feet....the kayakite comes in one size...The suttons are designed to lift up laundry, what we call windsocks and spinners and things, the sled design flies better easier and is not designed to pull upwards as much...

Drop me a note on email ..i might have a deal that interests you ;)


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 Post subject: Re: coastal transportation & exploration (kayak & kite)
Unread postPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 10:53 am 
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Joined: Sat May 26, 2007 4:00 pm
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Quote:
....but that also means from a safety view that water can do the same thing...and if a foil kite hits the water it will fill up pretty quickly....then you pulling it in is going to be very had as not only are you dragging a bag full of water, but you are also essentially going to be "flying" the kite in the water....water currents flow just like wind does...so...you will be pulling in a big wet heavy thing that will be fighting you every second
I have a 15 sq ft Sutton, never use it. It's hard to get it aloft except in a strong wind. It dives easily when the wind lets up. If it hits the drink, you can't pull it in; you paddle over to it. Which usually means paddling upwind because the wind quickly blows you past it as you are reeling in line.

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