• We apologize for the somewhat convoluted sign-up process. Due to ever-more sophisticated attacks by chatbots, we had to increase our filtering in order to weed out AI while letting humans through. It's a nuisance, but a necessary one in order to keep the level of discourse on the forums authentic and useful. From the actual humans using WCP, thanks for your understanding!

Boat Suggestions

Hi

I am looking for my first kayak. I have been on one two day overnight trip and taken a basics class in Portland Oregon. I am looking for primarily a boat for day touring or an occassional overnight. The boat will be used almost exclusively on Puget Sound. I am 6'0" 190lbs (long legs short torso). The folks at Alder Creek suggested a Tempest 170 but havent demo-ed it yet. I took my basics class Perception Expression 15.0 which I found to be very stable and manuervable. I prefer a boat with a skeg and that it be plastic.

What else should I be taking a look at?

Thanks in advance.

Pat Mc
 
I'd recommend taking a look at the P&H Scorpio and Valley Avocet RM. Both plastic and fantastic boats.
 
I am not big on suggesting boats in cases where someone is still figuring out what they want. Given the description you said, there are too many boats that would work just fine for you. Buy they are all slightly different, so while it would meet your specs, you may find they won't work.

Instead, I tell people to go out and get butt time. There is even an article on it that I wrote for California Kayaker Magazine with some ideas on how to get butt time in boats (read online for free at http://www.calkayakermag.com/magazine.html - check out Issue #8 starting on page 6).

Another important aspect for me is what is available at your local dealer. Buying something available locally means you have a better chance of getting to paddle it beforehand, and will make sure there is service for it should a problem arise (skegs are notorious on all brands for getting damaged, but other stuff can and does happen).

(ps - nothing against the prior posters recommendations - I own a rotomolded Valley Aquanaut myself - just don't like making recommendations this early in the game, as most any brand could work just fine)
 
I just got back from a trip to the coast renting boats. One on the boats I rented was a Tempest 170. It wasn't even on my list since I haven't seen it suggested for guys my size. I tried it on a whim after finding the 180 way too big. I rented it again our last day for another 2 hour paddle and can't stop thinking about it. Great cockpit, fast enough, likes waves, responds well to edging, tracks on rails with the skeg down, might have to order one this winter. But it might not be the same for you, I never would have considered this boat without butt time. I brought my roof racks with me in case I really liked the Zephyr 160 which on paper I thought was what I was looking for. So like Peter says, butt time in different boats to find the one that calls out to you. If I lived near rental shops I could easily see being a regular customer.
 
If you're in the greater Seattle area contact Kayak Academy to demo a Tempest 170. I believe they have a demo night the first Wednesday evening of the month, check their website to confirm and e-mail them to let them know you plan on attending and what kayaks you would like to demo.

NOTE: I do not receive any royalties or discounts from Kayak Academy.
 
Peter-CKM said:
I am not big on suggesting boats in cases where someone is still figuring out what they want. Given the description you said, there are too many boats that would work just fine for you. Buy they are all slightly different, so while it would meet your specs, you may find they won't work.

Instead, I tell people to go out and get butt time. There is even an article on it that I wrote for California Kayaker Magazine with some ideas on how to get butt time in boats (read online for free at http://www.calkayakermag.com/magazine.html - check out Issue #8 starting on page 6).
Click to expand...

What I should possibly have also added is some guidelines of what to look for. You already said you want plastic and skeg. The other areas to add in is type of plastic and length.

Plastic could mean rotomolded plastic or thermoformed plastic. Rotomolded palstics are made of some version of polyethylene. Thermoformed is closer to PVC. Eddyline and Delta are two that make all thermoformed. Most of the others make more rotomolded plastic. Rotomolded is cheaper, heavier, and plastic is more flexible. Some makers of rotomolded (like Valley) use triple layer - they have 3 different materials layered together to improve stiffness (a flexible boat is less efficient, though also more forgiving should you bash it into a rock).

Ability to do some overnights means you will want a boat that is at least 15 feet. I have done overnights out of a 14' boat, but it is hard. Going a little longer would help make fitting the gear easier, yet still be a good all around boat. I would stay below 18' (and perhaps even below 17').
 
Well I demo-ed the Tempest, Valley Etain, Valley Aquanaut HV, and the P&H Delphin. I am still a novice but spent about 4 hours demo-ing these boats and the Aquanaut appears to be the winner. The Tempest fit really well but felt a bit less precise in the handling department and the build quality of the Valley was better. The thigh braces fit better on the Tempest and the folks at Alder Kayak in Portland are going to be adding some padding to the thigh hooks.

The fit of the Delphin was really good as well but even to my limited experience felt slower.

Anybody care to comment on my tentative selection?
 
Try every boat you can, borrow, beg, rent, find a paddle group/club and see what they are paddleing and try to get in as many boats as you can. If at all possible i would recamend buying a used boat so if you decide to upgrade you can sell without losing much money. If there is a lot of paddlers in your area a used boat will get you on the water and open the door to trading with others for a hour or two to try there boat.

A used boat will also free up money for quality paddling gear that you can use in what ever boat/boats you buy.

I bought a new Delta 17 with a rudder. would have went used but a very limited number of boats available in landlocked Alberta, lots of lakes though :D Have fun, I love my delta, but you might hate it depending on your size and weight.
 
Try every boat you can, borrow, beg, rent, find a paddle group/club and see what they are paddleing and try to get in as many boats as you can. If at all possible i would recamend buying a used boat so if you decide to upgrade you can sell without losing much money. If there is a lot of paddlers in your area a used boat will get you on the water and open the door to trading with others for a hour or two to try there boat.

A used boat will also free up money for quality paddling gear that you can use in what ever boat/boats you buy.

I bought a new Delta 17 with a rudder. would have went used but a very limited number of boats available in landlocked Alberta, lots of lakes though :D Have fun, I love my delta, but you might hate it depending on your size and weight.
 
pjmsj21 said:
Well I demo-ed the Tempest, Valley Etain, Valley Aquanaut HV, and the P&H Delphin. I am still a novice but spent about 4 hours demo-ing these boats and the Aquanaut appears to be the winner. The Tempest fit really well but felt a bit less precise in the handling department and the build quality of the Valley was better. The thigh braces fit better on the Tempest and the folks at Alder Kayak in Portland are going to be adding some padding to the thigh hooks.

The fit of the Delphin was really good as well but even to my limited experience felt slower.

Anybody care to comment on my tentative selection?
Click to expand...

You won't go wrong with any of those boats. And you are doing it right.

Interesting that you like the Aquanaut over the the Etain, as they are stopping manufacturing of the Aquanaut because the Etain fits the same niche (so presumably should feel a lot the same). But if the Aquanaut feels better, by all means get it. I have an Aquanaut, but have only paddled the composite Etain to compare, and it felt different. But Composite and Plastic versions of the same boat generally are pretty different (so a plastic Etain would feel different than the composite one I paddled).

The Delphin is meant more as a play boat. It will be a little slower that the others listed, but will maneuver a lot easier. If rock gardening or surfing is something you want to get in to, that would be a good choice. But if not, then the longer ones would be better. If you do want rock gardening, then maybe add an Dagger Alchemy 14.0L into your test choices (actually, maybe do it anyway - just to get another data point, though doesn't sound like this is the direction you will want to go).
 
I own a few Valley boats. I also tried the plastic Etain and a plastic Aquanaut LV recently, and preferred the Aquanaut. The Etain was absurdly tender in initial stability (my main boat is a Nordkapp RM), the cockpit foredeck was too high and boxy for my taste and I rubbed my hands on each low-angle paddle stroke, and the tracking struck me as a bit odd. The Aquanaut LV fit better and had much more easy-going manners. I could see the Etain being a great expedition-loaded boat, but I would not want it as a day tripper. The LV Aquanaut seemed like a great beginner/intermediate boat for a smaller paddler. I am 5' 11" and 190 lbs, but I like low-volume, sporty boats.
 
Philip.AK said:
The LV Aquanaut seemed like a great beginner/intermediate boat for a smaller paddler. I am 5' 11" and 190 lbs, but I like low-volume, sporty boats.
Click to expand...

While I am only an inch or so taller than you, I have long legs and big feet. I was able to get into the LV version of the Aquanaut but barely and if felt very uncomfortable for me.

I was a bit concerned about the size of the HV but my leg length pretty much dictated similar sized boats to the HV Aquanaut. The Tempest 170 subjectively felt larger than the Aquanaut.
 
I hear ya.

I like to 'wear' my boat and don't bat an eyelash at the idea of spending 35 miles a day pretty much immobilized in a snug-fitting boat. I also have long legs and wear size 11.5 shoes so I'm pretty much shoe-horned into my Nordkapp, but I know that would cause a lot of people to have a claustrophobic panic attack. That's why it is so damned hard to get boat buying advice online. You've got weirdos like me offering opinions. :wink:
 
  • Like
Reactions: CPS
C

copytmpmzl

New Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2022
Messages
2
Location
United kingdom
pjmsj21 said:
Hi

I am looking for my first kayak. I have been on one two day overnight trip and taken a basics class in Portland Oregon. I am looking for primarily a boat for day touring or an occassional overnight. The boat will be used almost exclusively on Puget Sound. I am 6'0" 190lbs (long legs short torso). The folks at Alder Creek suggested a Tempest 170 but havent demo-ed it yet. I took my basics class Perception Expression 15.0 which I found to be very stable and manuervable. I prefer a boat with a skeg and that it be plastic.

What else should I be taking a look at?

Thanks in advance.

Pat Mc
marine fasteners, and marine grade nuts and bolts https://fairwindfasteners.com
Click to expand...
Hi,

I was hoping y’all could save me some time. I am looking for a small boat to take my 4 and 6-year-old out on a couple of rivers and small lakes near me.

Problem is I only have about 16’ 4” from back wall to door in my garage. It is a 2 car so I can angle but was hoping not to take up the entire garage.

Any suggestions for the most stable boat I can get in my small garage?


Thanks for any guidance you can provide!
 
Last edited:
If your preference for plastic is because of the cost for a new boat, consider a used kayak where the price difference is not always significant. Your reason for preferring plastic may be different, so you can ignore that comment.

The Valley Etain comes in various configurations ... the original 17.3 and the later series 17.1, 17.5, and 17.7 (if my memory is true). My guess is that one of these might serve you well, but another may not.
 
There are a lot of factors. What are your planned type of trips and your experience level. And there will be as many opinions as people asked. Do you just want short day paddles or want to grow into longer trips. Sit on top are really limited to short day paddles. I would recommend used for sure to see what you like then could upgrade. There are a lot of rotomolded polyethylene boats well over 20 years that are still very serviceable but not too expensive. Like a necky kyook or eskia or narpa or preception eclipse but the last 2 are about 17 ft. Or many others. With rotomolded you don't have to worry about kids learning or lending them out. You can ride them onto the rocks and barnacles without worry even though you may teach better care. And you can put a small kid in the back hatch even for a longer trip. We used to use a nylon skirt that we could cinch around the back hatch for rougher water. If you want to grow into a boat or want the kids to I would recommend a sit in as opposed to a sit on top. And by river I assume you mean fairly flat rivers.
 
Just an eyebrow raise in having a small child behind you - out of sight, in an open hatch that's part of the safety flotation system.

The open hatch issue can be minimized by stuffing any remaining aft open space with float bags. And maybe you indicated that the hatch is actually sealed with a spray skirt for the child. But I don't even like to carry my spare paddle on the back deck.
 
I'll humbly accept being corrected if i recommend something irresponsible. For babies and toddlers i would have them between my legs in my seat. We did this a lot on short safe paddles when ours were young. But by 4 or 6 years ours were trustworthy enough to be in the back hatch. A common set up for us was to spend the day at a beach with friends and take turns going for little paddles with the kids. I would even let the older kids paddle themselves. I always liked to have at least one experienced adult on the water or at least on standby if there were any problems. For expeditions a tandem is in order but i think that it's great to introduce kids to kayaking early. As for bouyancy, there are tons of recreational kayaks, Costco, Canadian Tire etc that have no flotation what so ever and inexperienced people paddle them everywhere which is also irresponsible.
 
> As for buoyancy, there are tons of recreational kayaks, Costco, Canadian Tire, etc. that have no flotation whatsoever and inexperienced people paddle them everywhere which is also irresponsible.

Maybe no accidents are reported because there is no one left :)

I'm more sensitive to the flotation issue because a lot of my paddling was down with a kayak that didn't have bulkheads (Mariner). These days my Mariners have a sealed rear hatch. I figure that's a good safety compromise; One sealed compartment while keeping the bow free to slide gear up from the cockpit. So in my case, if the rear hatch was open, and a wave swamped the boat, I'm not sure the kayak would remain floating. Probably depends on whatever flotation the drybags would provide.

And I've lost stuff from the back of my kayak - though nothing human.
 
cougarmeat said:
Just an eyebrow raise in having a small child behind you - out of sight, in an open hatch that's part of the safety flotation system.The open hatch issue can be minimized by stuffing any remaining aft open space with float bags. And maybe you indicated that the hatch is actually sealed with a spray skirt for the child. But I don't even like to carry my spare paddle on the back deck.
Click to expand...

I certainly would never have done so in "technical" paddling conditions, but back when we had our sheltie, who was about 35 pounds, so childish in terms of weight and behaviour, I occasionally took her out in the back compartment of my Northwest Kayaks Discover kayak. I had the stern area behind her filled with a Watershed Futa Stowfloat taper drybag, securely inflated into place. The area between the rear bulkhead and the front end of the rear hatch was filled with another inflatable drybag. So basically the only area without backup buoyancy was the area directly beneath the open hatch coaming where she was seated. And she had her own doggie PFD. So if we had capsized, the boat would have floated high, on an even keel and I would have been able to reboard doggie and self with a paddlefloat rescue.

I think Cougarmeat is right about the importance of having float bags if you're using a rear compartment as a cockpit for a wee one. In a capsize, the child is going need to do a wet exit (or you're going to do one for them). If the rear compartment floods fully while the front compartment remains buoyant, the kayak will become a vertical "Cleopatra's Needle" (and a low floating one at that, if the true cockpit is also flooded). It's going to be the devil's own job to reboard that on your own, let alone assist a child back aboard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CPS
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top