Deck rigging and attachment point for a sea anchor?

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bark-eater

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Any suggestions on rigging a sea anchor off the bow?

There's a large pad eye on my bow that has a toggle handle, bowline and a falcon sails forestay block attached. I don't want to use it as a hard point.

The sea anchor line could run through the pad eye and then aft , but it's getting crowded and there might be chafing on the other lines.

I can see a couple ways to use a tagline, but that's more spaghetti and at least one more cleat, besides the primary sea anchor line attachment point/cleat.

I'm not sure if this should be an actual boat cleat or some sort of clam or cam cleat.

Other thought is if I want to have a way to use the same rigging as a tow line incase I need to be towed.

And of course the boat is quirky being a Clipper sea one so all the rigging needs to go on a side deck, I assume on the port side, opposite the furled sail, which will bw shared with the sail control lines.

Any thoughts? Thanks, Woody

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It's been a while since I had my head inside a Sea-1. I know the ends are stuffed with a resin/glass slurry. It may be feasible to add another padeye towards the end to guide the sea anchor.

I'd probably make a spot to stow it under some bungee opposite the falcon sail rig, and have the end of time anchored near the cockpit to aid in retrieval. Reinforce that one with some extra glass or big washers as the Sea-1 deck tends to be a bit prone to spider cracks (due to the enormous cockpit).

I've thought about a sea anchor for my kayak, but the decks are a bit full already. The Sea-1 has acres by comparison.
 
The primary concern Im addressing is wind.

I’m paddling in “Tornado Alley” and the thunders storms and microbursts can be impressive.

Prevailing wind is on shore and were I launch is mostly built up with riprap for erosion control for a mile and some either direction.

It’s a 12 mile fetch to the western shore, but the shipping channel is about 1500 ft off the beach.

The idea was reinforced recently by a conversation with someone who had to assist a paddler who lost control of a kayak running a Falcon sail on open water.

The wind came up and they were unable to get the bow to wind and get the sail down and went on a sleigh ride away from their group.

Its been 35 years since I read about the adventures of Captain John Voss and his converted Nootkan dugout canoe “Tillikum”.

I’d have re-read that for the particulars, but my takeaway was that a sea anchor is a good thing to have.

Next off topic thread drift: naming paddle craft? Tillikum might work.
 
CPS said:
It's been a while since I had my head inside a Sea-1. I know the ends are stuffed with a resin/glass slurry. It may be feasible to add another padeye towards the end to guide the sea anchor.

I'd probably make a spot to stow it under some bungee opposite the falcon sail rig, and have the end of time anchored near the cockpit to aid in retrieval. Reinforce that one with some extra glass or big washers as the Sea-1 deck tends to be a bit prone to spider cracks (due to the enormous cockpit).

I've thought about a sea anchor for my kayak, but the decks are a bit full already. The Sea-1 has acres by comparison.
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Im going to add another pad eye if possible, but want to get some use out of the boat before cutting out bulkheads and other exploratory surgeries. It might be worth calling Clipper about whether I can drill through the bow for a loop or toggle, or pot bolt a deck pad eye into the fill. I don't like having everything that involves "force" on the bow attached to a single point.
 
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bark-eater said:
The primary concern Im addressing is wind.
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I had a Jordan series drogue on board my sailboat, and did a lot of research on sea anchors. In sailboats they are used in open ocean, not nearshore, as they aren't really 'anchors' so much as speed control and boat orienting devices.
I wouldn't want to depend on a parachute sea anchor to keep my kayak off the rocks.
Deploying and retrieving both need consideration - the sea anchor needs to be weighted to keep it in the water, and you need a way to collapse the parachute to get it back on board.
 
I was thinking along John's line. It sounded more like you'd want a drogue rather than a sea anchor because you still want to be underway.

This is my understanding of the terms ... a sea anchor is deployed at the bow of the vessel. Its job is to keep the bow pointed into the wind and essentially "anchor" the vessel in place, i.e. you are not moving. Lots of challenges in deployment and retrieval - which is not trivial.

A drogue is deployed from the stern. Its shape is like an ice cream cone with the bottom chopped off. So it creates drag as the water funnels through it. Its main job is to keep the vessel from accelerating or broaching down steep swells. It's easy to deploy and retrieve. Its bulk is much, much smaller than a sea anchor.

Your "bow to the wind" does indicate a sea anchor, but it sounds like you want to keep the bow to the wind while underway, not while "parked". How do you imagine the sea anchor working?
 
JohnAbercrombie said:
I had a Jordan series drogue on board my sailboat, and did a lot of research on sea anchors. In sailboats they are used in open ocean, not nearshore, as they aren't really 'anchors' so much as speed control and boat orienting devices.
I wouldn't want to depend on a parachute sea anchor to keep my kayak off the rocks.
Deploying and retrieving both need consideration - the sea anchor needs to be weighted to keep it in the water, and you need a way to collapse the parachute to get it back on board.
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I get that is all a percentage of solution thing. Keeping the bow to the wind and slowing down wind drift are the goals. It's also a bit of a safety device if I end up in the water to keep the boat from getting away. I figure the same deck rigging could get used with a "bottom" anchor, but that can add an entirely different level of compounding errors to a minor complication.
 
cougarmeat said:
I was thinking along John's line. It sounded more like you'd want a drogue rather than a sea anchor because you still want to be underway.

This is my understanding of the terms ... a sea anchor is deployed at the bow of the vessel. Its job is to keep the bow pointed into the wind and essentially "anchor" the vessel in place, i.e. you are not moving. Lots of challenges in deployment and retrieval - which is not trivial.

A drogue is deployed from the stern. Its shape is like an ice cream cone with the bottom chopped off. So it creates drag as the water funnels through it. Its main job is to keep the vessel from accelerating or broaching down steep swells. It's easy to deploy and retrieve. Its bulk is much, much smaller than a sea anchor.

Your "bow to the wind" does indicate a sea anchor, but it sounds like you want to keep the bow to the wind while underway, not while "parked". How do you imagine the sea anchor working?
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I'm looking looking for a sea anchor to "park" the boat, and slow things down a bit to avoid getting blown into the shore or shipping channel if I get one of those "gusts of 80 mph reported"' thunder storms.

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I picked up a vinyl 36" cone shaped drouge from the local West Marine going out of business sale.

It will fold up to about the size of a load of bread.

I have a nylon one that I think is a bit smaller that I kept in an inflatable SOAR canoe that I had in Galveston, Texas. I was concerned about being blown off shore, so it came along.

All the attention I got from curious sharks kind of discouraged me, and that rig is in pretty deep storage.

Putting my questionable intentions aside, any suggestions on the rigging?

Biggest and least reversible decision is what kind of cleat and where to put it, as well as what size line to use?
 
bark-eater said:
a conversation with someone who had to assist a paddler who lost control of a kayak running a Falcon sail on open water.

The wind came up and they were unable to get the bow to wind and get the sail down and went on a sleigh ride away from their group.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a sail rigging problem.
I'm not familiar with the Falcon sail, but I own a Flat Earth sail. The Flat Earth sails can rotate forward to luff on a downwind. The 'standard' Flat Earth rigging style includes a downhaul line so you can pull down the mast to the deck on any point of sail.
 
bark-eater said:
Putting my questionable intentions aside, any suggestions on the rigging?

Biggest and least reversible decision is what kind of cleat and where to put it, as well as what size line to use?
Click to expand...
I'd put the cleat (Clamcleat?) where I could reach it to release the boat completely from the sea anchor i.e. let the anchor go if things got tangled up. You could keep the bow pointed toward the sea anchor with a loop of cord attached to the padeye at the bow, with the sea anchor rode running through the loop.
 
I don't have any "how" but the "what" is pretty important to consider. You want that sea anchor to be on the bow, but the bow is pretty far away. I can imagine some small vertical uprights that would channel the line off the bow and back to the cockpit. The challenge is keeping it in those uprights during ... inclement ... weather. If the uprights were open, you would sort of whip the line in and out of them. But so could the waves.

My main concern would be the retrieval of the anchor. Even if you had a line that collapses it, that's still a lot of drag to pull up and over the side.

When I first read your post, an experience immediately flashed in my memory. A local developer had built an outdoor amphitheater next to the river. He wanted to close the PUBLIC river whenever he staged an event. Those of us with Kayaks ran pirate flags up makeshift masts and gathered in the river. At first it was just Joy and myself. But each weekend our armada grew larger.

But the first time out, I wanted to stay in one place - even though this was a slow-moving river at that point. So I dropped a small anchor over the side. Fortunately, my paddling partner was right next to me to grab my boat. Did I mention the river was slow-moving? Nonetheless, no matter which side the anchor was deployed, aided by just the minimum amount of resistance, it wanted to pull the kayak over. Just maybe I could have run a line through the U-bolt at the bow of the boat to raise and lower it from there. But in that case, if it got stuck on the bottom, all I could do would be to kiss it goodbye and let the rest of the line run through the U-bolt (and pray it wouldn't get jammed on the way out) - .That's why I'm concerned about the retrieval aspect of your sea anchor.

Here's a photo of Joy keeping the river free. She's wearing an eyepatch in front of one of her glasses' lenses.
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Well.... I went through my bookmarks and then found a couple more rabbit holes....


Kayak Sea Anchors

Sea Anchors are used by vessels in heavy seas and strong winds to keep the bow positioned into the oncoming breaking seas. They can also be used to maintain position.
web.archive.org

www.paddlinglight.com

Throw Bags for Sea Kayaking

Most sea kayakers who’ve passed a safety and rescue class are aware of the importance of carrying a tow rope. A similar safety device that could be of equal importance and prove more handy in some rescue situations is a whitewater throw bag. These bags are inexpensive and lightweight, so there...
www.paddlinglight.com www.paddlinglight.com

www.whetmanequipment.com

Drogue Chute

Drogue chute for sea kayak rescue and stabilisation at sea
www.whetmanequipment.com


graysoncobb.com

Kayak sea anchor setup - Because it's there

I added some deck rigging for a kayak sea anchor and towline. I used 80 feet of 2.8mm Spyderline. I took the line all the way from the bow to the stern.
graysoncobb.com


www.paddlinglight.com

Ah, Matey, Drop the Kayak Sea Anchor (Drogue), We Be Waiting Out the Storm

The above illustration comes from E.Y. Arima’s Inuit Kayaks in Canada: A Review of Historical Records and Construction, Based Mainly on the Canadian Museum of Civilization’s Collection. It shows a group of kayaks rafted together, under sail, dragging behind them an inflated seal skin, which...
www.paddlinglight.com www.paddlinglight.com


www.facebook.com

Whitewater The Canoe Centre

We’ve had a few people lately asking about the Whetman Sea Drogue and in particular how to attach it. So we loaded our kit and headed west to ask the main man himself. In the video Steve is using...
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
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bark-eater said:
Prevailing wind is on shore and were I launch is mostly built up with riprap for erosion control for a mile and some either direction.
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Old mariner's saying: "A lee shore is a sailor's grave."
So be careful and watch the WX!
You can modify the old flying saying: Better to be on the ground wishing you were flying, than to be flying and....... You know the rest!
 
Okay, despite your explanation @cougarmeat I'm still hopelessly confused over sea anchors versus drogues and...how do they even work? I guess I better do some research.

Not knowing any better, it would seem that anything you throw overboard with a line attached will end up downwind/downcurrent from the boat...so given this, I can see how a drogue (attached to the stern) would get pushed downwind keeping the bow pointed into the wind and waves. But I may be overlooking something obvious...
 
SWriverstone said:
But I may be overlooking something obvious...
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You have it backward.
Sea anchor - in the simplest setup, the sea anchor is attached to the bow and the boat is blown slowly downwind from the anchor, so the bow is held into the wind.
Drogue- streamed from the stern and slows the boat (and keeps it from broaching) as the boat is blown downwind (running).
Current isn't a factor - the boat and the anchor or drogue will all be moved by the current. In the ocean, current is like moving the picnic tablecloth - the ants and the plates don't realize they are all moving.
 
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If you are in BIG swells, the boat can accelerate down the face of the swell and possibly turn head over tea kettle. Note that the drogue is like a small cone with the tip cut off. So the water flows through it, but the drogue provides enough drag (at the stern) to keep the boat in line with the flow and not turn sideways to it.

The sea anchor is a parachute that stops the boat's movement with respect to the current. It's deployed at the bow. With the bow "anchored," the wind will align the boat so the pointy end is facing the wind - and holds it there. It's not an anchor in the sense that it holds the boat at the same Lat/Long. It's an anchor in the sense that the boat is only moving with the current (not current + boat speed because of sails) and is kept pointed into the wind. So, in that sense, if there is any current, the boat will move backward. But the front of the boat, the strongest part, is facing the weather. Again, no sideways orientation.
 
cougarmeat said:
So, in that sense, if there is any current, the boat will move backward.
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Or forward. And the 'anchor' will be moving at the same rate, carried by the current.
cougarmeat said:
Again, no sideways orientation.
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It's complicated. With a sailboat, the sea anchor can be rigged with a 'bridle' to keep the bow at an angle to the wind. This provides a steadier motion compared to having the boat yawing back and forth as the bow swings through the wind.
 
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