Delta 12.10 vs. Boreal Baltic 120

dang

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Jul 30, 2022
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I’m moving from an inflatable kayak to my first hard shell. I want something relatively lightweight for easy transportation, and capable enough for a day tour. I’m in the Seattle area and will use it in Puget Sound, lakes, and non-whitewater rivers.

I’ve been looking mostly at the Delta 12.10 (I can drive up to Canada where they’re more available), but also considering the Boreal Baltic 120.

They are similar in weight and size. Any comparisons, pros or cons, or other suggestions on the relative merits of these kayaks? Should I be worried about thermoform as being less durable/repairable?
 

cougarmeat

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Sep 17, 2012
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Bend OR USA
First, that was your first post so welcome to the forum.

I know the logistics to see them both are awkward. But I think it is very important that you sit in the boat to see how it fits you. Like two pairs of pants the same size, made by different manufacturers, they will have a different fit.

It might not be so critical for a "lake" boat, and when one has been around many boats - via retail "Demo Days" and trying out different paddling club members' boats you sort of develop a sense.

So you can categorize the boats by size, and intended use - as you have done - and that narrows it down. But before my money comes out of my pocket, I'd want to sit in it first.

That said, I once drove a marathon 3-day down and back trip from Bend to Pheonix AZ to buy a Mariner XL. T'was a bit of a commitment (the seller took several hundred dollars off because of my gas expenses) for a boat I hadn't sat in. But I knew Mariners.

In your case, you live in Seattle. There are paddling clubs aplenty - Washington Kayak Club, Seattle something or other, etc. Contact those groups to see if you can arrange an opportunity to put "hands on" various boats.

TIB (time-in-boat) is the most valuable effort spent - even if it is on land. See if you can get some of that in before committing big bucks.
 

mick_allen

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The basic question of comparisons came up a little while ago, here's a visual if useful. I guess one could note that the delta 12-10 is recognizably larger than the others, however it therefore could carry more gear for a longer outing.
comparison4.jpg
 
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dang

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Jul 30, 2022
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Seattle
Thanks for your replies. I'm definitely leaning toward the Delta 12.10. I'm wondering how easy it is to control it in wind when there's no skeg or rudder.
 

dang

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You read my mind. I just discovered that yesterday and I've rented a 12.10 this afternoon to try out.
 
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AM

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Thanks for your replies. I'm definitely leaning toward the Delta 12.10. I'm wondering how easy it is to control it in wind when there's no skeg or rudder.
TBH, a skeg or rudder on a 12’ boat seems unnecessary to me. At that length, the boat should respond easily to your input. And without a skeg or rudder, you have one less thing to go wrong: moving parts are always the first to break. Good luck with your test paddle!

Cheers,
Andrew
 
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cougarmeat

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My first boat, a Dagger Vesper, had a rudder. I didn't deploy it until I was able to paddle in a straight line without aids.

Back then, there was the idea that a rudder added drag and though it was a convenience, it was also less efficient. These days, the attitude has switched. The rudder is not used so much for turning - again, you can learn to navigate your boat without it - as it is for a correction against current and wind influences. That is, without the rudder, you may need to make one paddle stroke on the left, then three on the right, to compensate for wind or current forces. With a rudder, you can set it to compensate for those influences. That allows you to continue paddling "straight ahead" which weighs more as a plus, than any rudder drag weighs as a minus.

The skeg is sort of a compromise between the complexity of the rudder and nothing but boat lean and design. But it not "all or nothing". You only want to deploy the skeg as deep as necessary for correction. I don't use one but I recall reading that if it is deployed deeper than necessary, its own influence might need paddling compensation.

But these are all things for you to play with, on a lake, in the wind, under safe circumstances.
 
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mick_allen

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This might be a visual error of mine, but one aspect I think I see that is different in the Boreal is the much higher box coefficient - ie literally a more boxy shape. That has advantages and disadvantages:
advantage:
- for its length [it's actually a tad wider than the others] it will have more volume for packing
- for it's size, it will surf quicker and easier and therefore will be much more fun comparatively

disadvantage:
- comparatively it will be more difficult to edge or lean - touchy in x-waves
- full section will be more difficult to track - therefore skeg is helpful but takes up packing space.

and another comparative oddity is the Boreal's huge cockpit opening. This might make it great [really great] for larger paddlers, but too much of a bathtub for others. In big water, more implosion possibility.

anyway, might be a visual error of mine.
 
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