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Dialing in paddle length

BigandSmall

Paddler
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
433
Location
Northern BC
Just a question on high angle paddle length. I see a lot of people have moved to shorter paddles over the years and I am hoping to draw on that experience. On flat water I notice the 5cm difference from 215 to 210 but in waves I don't. I suspect that's just me not being comfortable enough in the rough stuff to notice. Do you feel that it was worth the price upgrading your premium paddle to drop 5cm?
 
Not an answer to your question, but one of the things I like a lot about the wing paddles is that they are length-adjustable 'on the fly'.
Standard lengths are 205-215 and 210-220.
I usually set the wing at about 208 but I do notice the difference if I 'change gears' by dropping down to 205 or moving up to 210+.
Comparing overall lengths between different paddle models (blade lengths) doesn't mean a lot, but I'll add that my 'regular' paddle is a 205 Cyprus (which doesn't get used so much lately).
Whether it would be worth the expense to buy a new carbon paddle for a 5 cm difference I can't say. I found more difference by moving to a smaller area wing paddle (Fenn5).
 
Over the years I have sized down to a 205 BS Ikelos which is my everyday paddle. My deck paddle is a 210 BS Cyprus and I will switch to it on trips where I am tired and in for a long slog. When I do, though, it feels long to me, a little bit "in the way", makes me change my stroke a bit and I miss the bracing power of the Ikelos. Honestly, I have been close to replacing the 210 BS Cyprus with a 205 BS Cyprus just so that I could change gears without changing anything else.

Like so many others I started with a 230cm low angle paddle (Werner San Juan). I found that severely limited my development and switched to a 218cm Onno Full Tour. It brought a whole new set of development problems so I switched to a 215 Ikelos. Way better but still not right for me. Then a 210 Ikelos and a 210 BS Cyprus. I preferred the Ikelos. At some point I found that I was better with a bent shaft and started using the BS Cyprus exclusively until I replaced the 210 Ikelos with a 205 BS Ikelos and that's where I am now.

I'm not saying that you should spend money to get a shorter paddle. Some factors not discussed go into paddle length. My journey sized me down and forced me to spend more money on paddles. The whole bent shaft thing is another discussion similar to "stretch VS trim". Not going there.
 
John, I'm hesitant to spend any more money on paddles I haven't spent time with but wings are definitely interesting. I see Werner now offers adjustable length too but with a 100gram weight penalty.

After spending some time with a shorter 210cm high angle paddle I think Jon nailed it with his description of "a bit in the way." compared to my 215cm. It only felt that way in very calm conditions though. On a Bowron trip last fall I was comparing between an Accent Edge at 210 and my Cyprus at 215. Not a fair comparison since they're not in the same price category or blade shape but there was enough difference to get me wondering hence this post.
 
I've just shortened my third paddle - this one for someone else - and I don't regret any of them. My wing is next to get the chop.

In 2008 I was at a symposium in Australia and Nigel Dennis, of NDK kayaks fame, was there with a 'coaches kit' of Lendal paddles. This pack allowed any combination of length, feather, blade size and type, or shaft - straight or crank - by using Lendal's four piece paddles.

Every. Single. Paddler. chose to go for shorter paddles, regardless of their physique, paddling style, boat width, blade preference, etc. Without fail.

Nigel made no suggestions initially, he just shortened the shafts and waited to hear feedback before he tweaked other things. It was enlightening.

Break out the saw and epoxy and have at it! :biggrin:
 
One factor that matters when choosing a paddle length is the width of your boat. I still paddle an ancient Necky Looksha IV and the beam is 22 inches. When I bought this boat in 1998, I started off with a 220 cm low angle paddle but soon switched to a 215 cm high angle paddle. At this point, I might find that a 210 suits me better (if I tried one), but the 215 still feels fine.

In whitewater, I started off with a 200 cm paddle and dropped all the way down to a 191 cm for playboating and river running in low volume (50 to 57 gallon) boats. When I bought an 80 gallon creeker, I soon found that the 191 did not give me much purchase and I often "whiffed" strokes in big water. Then I purchased a 197 cm paddle for creeking and I also this paddle for my huge (104 gallon) crossover boat (Katana 10.4) The 191 only comes out if I'm in a small boat and/or playboating.
 
205 - 210 is about where I … roll. I started with a long-ish (220) paddle and after watching a few “forward stroke performance” videos and playing with more a vertical style I went shorter. The Epic has an adjustable shaft length. They improved the locking mechanism over the first twist collar model and when I sent my in for the update, I had them move the adjustable range shorter. I try to bring two paddles - one with a wider, “dig in and go” blade and one with a narrower (and usually longer shaft) paddle for easier on the joints paddling. I use the wider paddle if the water looks “busy” and/or if I’m paddling with someone I may need to get to quickly.

When I practice my roll, I use the narrower paddle so I don’t get psychologically hung up on thinking a wide blade is necessary (or remind myself of all the Greenland rollers with their sticks - yeah, they have a different style boat too)

If I were to do something over, it would be NOT To spend the money for a bent paddle. It does nothing for me except occasion more fussing when I grab the paddle. But ergonomic keyboards have never worked for me either. Guess I’m just a “straight across” kind a guy.
 
Like so many others I started with a 230cm low angle paddle (Werner San Juan). I found that severely limited my development and switched to a 218cm Onno Full Tour.

BTW.......There may be a lot of those 230cm San Juans out there. I cut the blades on mine down to the shape of a Cyprus which turned it into a 215cm Shuna-sort of. Doesn't paddle exactly like a Shuna but at least it makes it a useable tool. The SJ only came in straight shaft, though, and I prefer ergonomic keyboards. Guess I'm just a "kinky" kind of guy.:D
 
The worst are paddle manufacturers and their paddle length recommendations. I put up on our national New Zealand sea kayaking website a bit about it and very soon after one of them changed their recommendations. Co-incidence?

The worst was a guided trip in the Haida Gwaii where the supplied paddles were 240 cm. I cursed them for a couple of months after that with a strained shoulder. We took over the kayaks from a group of short women so a hire company with no idea about gear.

Our recent trip in Samoa paddles were 220 cm. Towards the end of the first day I changed to the very heavy split that was much shorter.

I started back in 1983 with 220 cm and made a 230 cm paddle which I never used as it obviously was too long.

In Australia, when visiting, I have the choice of 190 cm or 197 cm. I usually use the shorter one.

However, I tend to use paddles up to 220 cm GPs. The difference in type seems to allow a longer paddle, presumably because the centre of effort is further from the blade tip. I also always paddle unfeathered. The argument about feather and head-winds does not make sense. for a wind up to within 10 degrees of dead ahead, maybe, otherwise, especially a beam wind, feather is of no advantage and beam on dangerous if very strong gusts.
 
I bought a Scorpio HV a few years ago, a wide boat with a high deck. I suspect that high deck changed my paddle stroke. I've been through a few paddles now over the years: Onno full tour 212-222 it had a kick coming out of the water if your stroke was too long as noted by Jon a while ago. I cut it down to a mid tour plus for my son by tracing my daughter's). Werner Ikelos BS (bothered my thumb, sold it to a friend for the deal I got it for). Shuna 215 sold it to a different friend that needed a paddle, shouldn't have. Werner Cyprus 215 and finally an Accent Edge 210 I bought to beat on in the rivers to keep my Cyprus in one piece. I thought when I bought the Cyprus it would be my last paddle until I broke it, I should know better.
 
I started with at 235 skagit loaner felt it could be longer, bought a 240, and was happy until I got hold of an old 230 Camano. I find a 220 Skagit is still a bit short, but I expect once I upgrade from my plastic barge to something sleeker it'll feel a lot better. I tried a 210 Tybee but with my boat it felt very awkward. I guess the biggest solace is that my Camano is over 10 years old with the old metal pushbutton lock, so may be possible to shorten it in future..
 
When I first started out, i had a 220 Aquabound that I soon replaced with a 215 and that felt good for a while. Then I got my Aquabound Eagle Ray in 210 and was very happy with the length. Then I started looking for a replacement when the ferrule wore out and Werner website suggested a 215 Cyprus. Which I got and didn't really enjoy. So i had Werner custom make me a 210 Camano and it's my favorite long distance paddle. Still have the 210 Eagle Ray, now epoxied into 1 pc, a 210 AT Oracle, as well as a few others, shortest being my whitewater paddles, most of them 194. I find my style easily enough adapts to shorter paddles even if using a 194 in surf with a short fat boat. Using a 220+ now feels pretty awkward the few times I traded with friends.
 
Update: I ended up buying a 210cm Cyprus straight shaft from Ocean river last season when they were clearing everything out. For me it ended up being worth the money since the new one feels just about perfect. Swapping between my two equal length paddles the fiberglass paddle just feels heavy and no where near as smooth in the water. I will note that when paddling in some very rough conditions last summer that extra reach might have been welcome when lifted between wind waves. However that "not in the way" feel I get now on flat water makes it a better fit for me and worth the upgrade. Thank you all for your advice.
 
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Since this (very interesting) discussion started, I've bought an ORKA 'Flat' aka Euro paddle which has 10 cm of length adjustment, like a wing paddle. It's a pretty nice paddle, and might come in handy when I'm trying to help friends tune in paddle length.

As others have pointed out, the variations in blade shape really make the overall length measurement a not-very-useful way of comparing paddles.
So, lots of excuses for multiple paddles in the toolbox! Or, much more economical, it's a good reason to swap paddles with friends when you can pry their favourite paddle from their hands. :)
 
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