Little scuba tank for the rolling practice?

sushiy

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Oct 3, 2006
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938
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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
Here me again.
I don't know what I was thinking... I signed up for a rolling lesson next week. It will be a begginers introduction cource.
I read somewhere basic rolling can be learned in one hour, and once it learned, it is a lot easier on my body. And also my instructor said last time maybe he could teach me roll at the end of the lesson ( we did not though). Those things made me feel I am ready to take the step to roll 8O And then I found out I can hold my breath only 35seconds without moving, 20seconds with walking. I dn't know it is long enough to practice...

And all the sudden... :idea: :idea: :idea:
Maybe I can get small small scuba tank, attached to the kayak and the tubu running through the skirt, so I can be upside down all daylong!! Is there anything like that? A small small oxy. tank...
How about hydration pack with air instead of water???

Anyone has any experience with those?
 

Comoxpaddler

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Aug 30, 2006
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Comox, BC
Sushiy

Good luck with rolling and well done for deciding to go for it.

When I was learning (and failing) to roll I actually thought of trying to rig a tube running from my mouth along the side of the boat so that I could breathe as if through a snorkel when upside down. Fortunately I finally got the hang of rolling instead.

I don't really think any of these breathing systems would work.

I would strongly recommend the DVD "The Kayak Roll" from www.performancevideo.com It really is excellent.

You should also try to remember my paddling guru's mantra of the four "L's":

"In order:
Look up (making you push your arms up)
Lean out (see my comment below)
Lift knee (starts the hip flick)
Look down (as you finish - this keeps your head down and stops you lifting it early)"

The one thing I think none of the teaching systems emphasize enough - but which my guru did - is the idea that one should really reach up so that one's hands get out of the water and that they should, whilst parallel to the boat, nonetheless be as far as possible from the side of the boat. If you reach out enough to achieve this then the boat starts to roll up already, giving you some momentum from which you can finish the roll. My paddling buddy says my upper shoulder is completely out of the water before I even start rolling. This is important because most people try to roll from a position that is perpendicular to the surface of the water. I try to get my body up towards the surface before I even start my hip flick.
 

GordB

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Apr 27, 2005
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Ladner, BC
Sushiy

This may or may not be a good idea.

It is possible that you could learn to roll while using one, but then become so dependent on it you can't roll without it.

It takes me about 5 seconds to set up and roll after a capsize, and I only gave it 2 attempts when I was learning. The benefit to not finishing a roll is that you will learn to consistently and efficiently be able to self rescue yourself learning two things at once.

You will find that the more you hold your breath the longer you are able to do so, which will allow you to relax more after a capsize.

The four L's mentioned above are really good to remember and hit all the major points. Drive as hard as you can with your knee and don't stop or it will seem that you stall out.

Good luck

Gord
 

Dave_Barrie

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Jan 23, 2005
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Victoria
Spare Air tanks are not cheap....and you would really have to hang on when going over so it doesn't get yanked out of your mouth.
 

Comoxpaddler

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Aug 30, 2006
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Comox, BC
In a post above I wrote:
"My paddling buddy says my upper shoulder is completely out of the water before I even start rolling."
I wrote it late last night when I was tired and realised this morning that I wasn't quite accurate in what I put down. I do a C-to-C and my shoulder is out of the water when I have brought the paddle to the 90 degree position. Don't suppose anyone cares much but just for the record! The principle remains - look up and lean out. The first 2 of the 4 "Ls".
 

Mark_Schilling

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Mar 8, 2005
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"Home by the Sea" - Nanaimo, BC
Sushiy, I also looked into air systems when I wanted to learn to roll. The SpareAir system is quite expensive, and with everything else that's going on when you're learning to roll, I don't think you'd find it as useful as you might think. You're not going to drown, but you will get a lot better at solo re-entries after bailing out. Try to calm yourself after a failed roll. Rather than splashing about trying for another immediate attempt, take a second or two and get set up properly and try to think about everything you have to do. It's much harder to do that than it sounds, but if you can learn to be relaxed in your upside-down boat, you'll probably improve your rolling much faster.
 

keabird

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Joined
Apr 27, 2006
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458
Location
Edmonds, WA
DO NOT USE A SCUBA TANK FOR ROLLING PRACTICE!!! I am a dive instructor and I can tell you it would be a very bad idea. Firstly, you must be a certified diver to be able to buy or rent even a small emergency scuba tank. Second, breathing compressed air in a situation like this would be very dangerous as the pressure differential in the first few feet of water is the greatest. You run a very high risk of getting an air embolism if you held your breath even for an instant. Third, anything larger than the absolute smallest emergency air tank would be very heavy and complicate learning to roll. Finally, scuba regulators are not designed to work upside down. They kindof work, but you would be getting a lot of water with each breath which might cause you to cough or hold your breath. This would also lead to a high risk of an embolism.
 

sushiy

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Oct 3, 2006
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938
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
Thank you for all your information :D
I don't know how many lives I've lost if I did not have you guys!!

Good luck to me.

I let you know how it went next weekend...
 

thief

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Jan 11, 2007
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141
Location
The North Shore of Massa-who-setts
keabird said:
Firstly, you must be a certified diver to be able to buy or rent even a small emergency scuba tank.
to purchase the Rapid Air system you do not need to be a diver....but they do recommend it...i also think that you have to be certified to get it recharged...but then this is not a dive tank....

here is their words from their site....

http://www.rapidair.net/faq/WhySCUBAcert.php

oop-nope they have a special form to fillout if you are not certified to be able to get it refilled...wierd....not certain how i would feel about that if i were the shop.....

there are some guys on bt who have used it....

i have a Quick Air system from them...the single way valve on a tube....neat thing....but then i am a gear slut and like the oddities.....this is the same system that are provided in DragoRossi creekboats...i got mine just for fun....hope i never have to offer it to someone.......

rob
 

keabird

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Apr 27, 2006
Messages
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Location
Edmonds, WA
thief said:
keabird said:
Firstly, you must be a certified diver to be able to buy or rent even a small emergency scuba tank.
to purchase the Rapid Air system you do not need to be a diver....but they do recommend it...i also think that you have to be certified to get it recharged...but then this is not a dive tank....
I took a look at the site and the product is interesting. However, as a dive professional who has rescued certified, experienced divers that made mistakes, it is a VERY dangerous decision to sell these devices to uncertified people. There are no laws against selling an uncertified person scuba (or scuba type) equipment, but the industry regulates it self pretty well.

Breathing compressed air can be very dangerous especially for someone who is untrained. I cant stress enough that using this device or any other compressed air equipment when learning to roll would come with an unneccesary risk of injury. If anyone wants more details on why I am so adamant on this subject, email or PM me and you will get more details than you can shake a paddle at.
 
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