Looking for Current Designs Double Vision Kayak

[Slanger]

I'm searching for a second hand Current Designs Double Vision. Or other small double kayak to paddle with my young daughter. I'm located on Salt Spring. Thanks!

 

[red kite]

Comox Valley Kayaks has a composite Double Vision on their fleet sale.

Assuming that you are essentially wrestling the kayak on your own you might want to consider a poly boat: while they are heavier they do take considerably more abuse. (source: I took care of the composite Double Visions in a rental fleet. They are great kayaks, but don't really take kindly to repeated/extended dragging, drops or ramming into rocks and docks.)

 

[kayakwriter]

Assuming that you are essentially wrestling the kayak on your own you might want to consider a poly boat: while they are heavier they do take considerably more abuse. (source: I took care of the composite Double Visions in a rental fleet. They are great kayaks, but don't really take kindly to repeated/extended dragging, drops or ramming into rocks and docks.)

Seconding Red Kite. Source: Sold both composite and poly Double Visions when working at the late, lamented Ecomarine. We also had both types in Ecomarine's rental fleet. The composites are long gone; some of the poly Double Visions are still in service at Jericho Beach Kayak (who bought a lot of the Ecomarine assets when Ecomarine went bankrupt.)

 

[Slanger]

Comox Valley Kayaks has a composite Double Vision on their fleet sale.

Assuming that you are essentially wrestling the kayak on your own you might want to consider a poly boat: while they are heavier they do take considerably more abuse. (source: I took care of the composite Double Visions in a rental fleet. They are great kayaks, but don't really take kindly to repeated/extended dragging, drops or ramming into rocks and docks.)

Thanks red kite
- I found a kevlar Double Vision in Nevada. What do you think of t

 

[Slanger]

Seconding Red Kite. Source: Sold both composite and poly Double Visions when working at the late, lamented Ecomarine. We also had both types in Ecomarine's rental fleet. The composites are long gone; some of the poly Double Visions are still in service at Jericho Beach Kayak (who bought a lot of the Ecomarine assets when Ecomarine went bankrupt.)

Thanks kayakwriter admin
I found a kevlar Double Vision in Nevada. What do you think of that? Are these boats around? I live on Saltspring-seems bizarre to ship from Nevada!
And yes,I will wrangle the whole boat on my own, thus my search for the Double Vision which is the shortest decent boat I can find. I have small lightweight camp gear, so not too worried about volume.
what are your thoughts?

 

[kayakwriter]

Thanks kayakwriter adminI found a kevlar Double Vision in Nevada. What do you think of that? Are these boats around? I live on Saltspring-seems bizarre to ship from Nevada!

Honestly, unless you've got some way that the boat is coming from Nevada for free, I think any shipping costs or the costs of you driving to pick up are going to be more than the savings from buying second hand. For the money you'd spend to get that boat from Nevada, you could probably get a brand new boat locally.

I have small lightweight camp gear, so not too worried about volume.
what are your thoughts?

As long as you pack "like a backpacker" you should be able to fit enough for a long weekend in the Double Vision.

 

[red kite]

Thanks red kite
- I found a kevlar Double Vision in Nevada. What do you think of t

Personally I'm not sure why one would "go" to Nevada ( with all the caveats that entails, unless you are going there anyway) when there's one in the Comox Valley (as mentioned)? I'm confident that it's well maintained and if you want, I'm willing to stop by (when they reopen after the holiday break) and give you the professional repair person's opinion on it, to safe you a ferry ride before you decide.

Just to clarify terminology, since "kevlar" seems to have grabbed your attention:
When I say composite, I mean that type of boat - some type of fabric (blend) for strength, the cured resin that keeps it in the desired shape.
The composite Double Vision is a composite kayak from a polyaramid blend. "Kevlar" is a brand name of a polyaramid.

I stand by my opinion that a rotomolded polyethylene ("plastic") kayak or even a thermoform ("Delta") kayak might, overall, be a better choice for your intended usage. The Double Vision does come in the poly version as well, if you are set on the model.

 

[CPS]

There's a fairly scratched up used composite Double Vision at Western Canoe and Kayak as well.

 

[kayakwriter]

Just to clarify terminology, since "kevlar" seems to have grabbed your attention:When I say composite, I mean that type of boat - some type of fabric (blend) for strength, the cured resin that keeps it in the desired shape. The composite Double Vision is a composite kayak from a polyaramid blend. "Kevlar" is a brand name of a polyaramid.

Red Kite, I'd be interested in your take on this as well, but my recollection of the composite Double Vision was that the layup was thinner and significantly less tough than other brands such as Seaward, or even other CD boats such as the Equinox and Solstice. CD's website describes the layup for the Double Vision as "vacuum bagged composite hybrid layup" compared to "Fiberglass" for the base version of the Solstice. I'm pretty sure they went with the more economical layup for the Double Vision to keep the price at an entry-point level and to minimize the weight.

I stand by my opinion that a rotomolded polyethylene ("plastic") kayak or even a thermoform ("Delta") kayak might, overall, be a better choice for your intended usage. The Double Vision does come in the poly version as well, if you are set on the model.

Gonna mostly concur with this, with one caveat. We sold Deltas at Ecomarine. They've got a lot of great features, including an awesomely adjustable and comfortable seating system. But impact resistance is literally not their strong point. (If the crack is in a flat surface, they're very quickly field repairable with Delta's repair kit; if you've punched in the bow tip against a dock (yes, I've seen it), you're looking at taking it to the factory for fixing.)

So for both a Delta double and a composite Double Vision, the price of the lightness is that you don't want to be dragging or dropping them. If Slanger's young daughter is too small to contribute to carrying and roof-racking the double, he will be dragging and potentially dropping the boat, so I'd suggest a poly double, and a poly Double Vision would be an excellent choice.

 

[a_c]

I just came from BestCoast Outfitters in Victoria and they have a white double Delta sitting outside the store. It's probably a rental or a trade in, and not sure what condition its in, but it might be worth a call.

EDIT - I just remembered, in addition to the Delta they actually have a used Current Design double inside the store as well, and I believe it's in poly.

 

[red kite]

Red Kite, I'd be interested in your take on this as well, but my recollection of the composite Double Vision was that the layup was thinner and significantly less tough than other brands such as Seaward, or even other CD boats such as the Equinox and Solstice. CD's website describes the layup for the Double Vision as "vacuum bagged composite hybrid layup" compared to "Fiberglass" for the base version of the Solstice. I'm pretty sure they went with the more economical layup for the Double Vision to keep the price at an entry-point level and to minimize the weight.

I concur. I think for the Vision family they use(d) an aramid material with (filled) honeycomb structure as a core to build up a bit of thickness at minimal weight gain and sandwich it with cloth. (I first thought it might be Soric [or an offbrand variation of it], but Soric being polyester it would show white, not yellow.) Having said all that: It's been a very long time since I've had my head in a Vision style kayak, I might come up with a better explanation if I'd have one close by. ;-)
(As soon as you use traditional fabric or mat type materials you have to soak them through to get a proper laminate. Vacuum bagging helps with even distribution of resin at the minimum amount needed, but that resin is responsible for the bulk of the weight.)

Also adding to the entry level price point (CAD 4500...): The composite Vision kayaks are made in Asia. I remember that the very first ones needed some tweaking and/or TLC before they were fully and efficiently usable in the rental fleet / or being sold. I think those QC issues became less and less frequent over the years. (Not quite sure where the rotomolded versions were/are made, and I can't recall problems with those.)
AFAIK the touring singles (and the Libra XT) are still produced in Winona, MN.

Gonna mostly concur with this, with one caveat. We sold Deltas at Ecomarine. They've got a lot of great features, including an awesomely adjustable and comfortable seating system. But impact resistance is literally not their strong point. (If the crack is in a flat surface, they're very quickly field repairable with Delta's repair kit; if you've punched in the bow tip against a dock (yes, I've seen it), you're looking at taking it to the factory for fixing.)

So for both a Delta double and a composite Double Vision, the price of the lightness is that you don't want to be dragging or dropping them. If Slanger's young daughter is too small to contribute to carrying and roof-racking the double, he will be dragging and potentially dropping the boat, so I'd suggest a poly double, and a poly Double Vision would be an excellent choice.

Point taken and supported. I call them the "perfect storm" scenarios, and you are right: single handed tandem wrestling increases the risk of damage to lightweight composite or thermoform. They might be about the length of a single touring kayak but you can't shoulder them at or close to the balance centre, and the additional width and weight makes them considerably more unwieldy.

 

[Slanger]

I concur. I think for the Vision family they use(d) an aramid material with (filled) honeycomb structure as a core to build up a bit of thickness at minimal weight gain and sandwich it with cloth. (I first thought it might be Soric [or an offbrand variation of it], but Soric being polyester it would show white, not yellow.) Having said all that: It's been a very long time since I've had my head in a Vision style kayak, I might come up with a better explanation if I'd have one close by. ;-)
(As soon as you use traditional fabric or mat type materials you have to soak them through to get a proper laminate. Vacuum bagging helps with even distribution of resin at the minimum amount needed, but that resin is responsible for the bulk of the weight.)

Also adding to the entry level price point (CAD 4500...): The composite Vision kayaks are made in Asia. I remember that the very first ones needed some tweaking and/or TLC before they were fully and efficiently usable in the rental fleet / or being sold. I think those QC issues became less and less frequent over the years. (Not quite sure where the rotomolded versions were/are made, and I can't recall problems with those.)
AFAIK the touring singles (and the Libra XT) are still produced in Winona, MN.




Point taken and supported. I call them the "perfect storm" scenarios, and you are right: single handed tandem wrestling increases the risk of damage to lightweight composite or thermoform. They might be about the length of a single touring kayak but you can't shoulder them at or close to the balance centre, and the additional width and weight makes them considerably more unwieldy.

Thanks for your comments. I was wondering how it would feel to 'shoulder' a Double Vision. I handle my Numbus Seafarer perfectly fine on my own, but easy to balance the boat from the single cockpit. The Composite Double Vision is 69 lbs, whereas the Poly is 92 lbs. That's a huge difference. My (huge) Nimbus Seafarer is 55 lbs, Width 28 inches, Depth 14.5 inches whereas the Composite Double Vision is 69 lbs, Width 24 inches, Depth 12.5 inches. Both are 16 feet 8 inches in length. But, yeah - you don't carry a double in the middle balance point.

 

[Slanger]

Thanks for your comments everyone. You people are a wealth of information! I was wondering how it would feel to 'shoulder' a Double Vision. I handle my Numbus Seafarer perfectly fine on my own, (out of the garage, onto the car, to the water, etc. etc.) but it's easy to balance the boat from the single cockpit. The Composite Double Vision is 69 lbs, whereas the Poly is 92 lbs. That's a huge difference. My (huge!)) Nimbus Seafarer is 55 lbs, Width 24 inches, Depth 14.5 inches whereas the Composite Double Vision is 69 lbs, Width 28 inches, Depth 12.5 inches. Both are 16 feet 8 inches in length. But, yeah - you don't carry a double in the middle balance point.

I just came from BestCoast Outfitters in Victoria and they have a white double Delta sitting outside the store. It's probably a rental or a trade in, and not sure what condition its in, but it might be worth a call.

EDIT - I just remembered, in addition to the Delta they actually have a used Current Design double inside the store as well, and I believe it's in poly.

I just came from BestCoast Outfitters in Victoria and they have a white double Delta sitting outside the store. It's probably a rental or a trade in, and not sure what condition its in, but it might be worth a call.

EDIT - I just remembered, in addition to the Delta they actually have a used Current Design double inside the store as well, and I believe it's in poly.

I've looked at photos of the second hand Delta 17.5's from BestCoast Outfitters, and they are quite beat up with large cracks and damage. The brand new one outside the store looks good. The 16 foot 8 inch length of the Double Vision appeals to me.

 

[Slanger]

Honestly, unless you've got some way that the boat is coming from Nevada for free, I think any shipping costs or the costs of you driving to pick up are going to be more than the savings from buying second hand. For the money you'd spend to get that boat from Nevada, you could probably get a brand new boat locally.



As long as you pack "like a backpacker" you should be able to fit enough for a long weekend in the Double Vision.

Yes, 'like a backpacker' - I am a mountaineer - even smaller/lighter gear than backpacking!

 

[mick_allen]

Well, you've been looking for some time for this particular boat . . . and your main issue seems to be weight or at least handling ease . . . and you do have light and compact gear . . .

So in the interim to get out there, any thoughts about making a Skin On Frame double to your desired dimensions? They're cheap, light, and don't take a whole lot of time or skill and the build might be a great bonding experience with your youngster - and then throw it out [or change the deck - it is 17 feet long after all] when you eventually get the CD Dble Vision you want.

admittedly a challenging idea, but it is an idea that meets the program.

 

[AM]

@Slanger I don’t know the age of your child or what your specific paddling goals are, but I paddled with my kids a lot when they were young (and still do). I had a variety of boats: double SOT, double folding kayak, tandem canoe.

Of those, the canoe was best and we still have it and I still trip with my kids in it. I stayed away from tandem kayaks because they are expensive, they are hard to carry (as per discussion above), and because I think they are more dangerous for a child in a capsize if the child has a sprayskirt on.

Just my $0.02.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[red kite]

I've looked at photos of the second hand Delta 17.5's from BestCoast Outfitters, and they are quite beat up with large cracks and damage. The brand new one outside the store looks good.

I doubt that, as a reputable store *, they would sell a used Delta with any actual cracks - it would not be seaworthy. If they have any business sense at all, they know that that would backfire very fast. If you are looking at second hand you will have to put up with signs of being used, which would reflect on the price, of course.

I think either way you should include transport aids in your concept of getting (any) double to paddle with a kid: wheels, some adaption to the roof rack etc.


* As opposed to the group of shady people on FB marketplace, craigslist etc who are trying to sell something "found", that they have zero idea about and don't bother to provide relevant information - and before you ask, yes, I've seen those ads that set all alarm bells off...

 

[CPS]

I doubt that, as a reputable store *, they would sell a used Delta with any actual cracks - it would not be seaworthy. If they have any business sense at all, they know that that would backfire very fast. If you are looking at second hand you will have to put up with signs of being used, which would reflect on the price, of course.

Looking at the used Deltas on their website I see a concerning number of cracks in the coaming given they describe it as "a few signs of wear and tear".

Regarding rotomolded Current Designs, I wouldn't really recommend them these days. We ordered a bunch in at work and almost all of them ended up being warranty claims due to manufacturing defects.

 

[red kite]

Looking at the used Deltas on their website I see a concerning number of cracks in the coaming given they describe it as "a few signs of wear and tear".

Holy smokes! I stand corrected, but I still hope that they float.

Thanks for your up-to-date industry input, @CPS.

 

[rider]

There is a grey poly Double Vision listed on FB Marketplace in Burnaby/Vancouver area, don't know how old is the ad but it's still there. Also as alternatives go, I owned a 16 ft double made by Azul/Riot/Sun (3 brands of the same company, I think the model was Echo or Polarity) and it was surprisingly good as a shorter distance day boat. I remember having a good time paddling around rocks at Port Renfrew. Responsive but stable, roomy cockpits that you could get a decent grip on. Manageable size. Though any real ocean double is hard to handle solo because there is no natural balancing point. The only downside was a fairly awful rudder deployment mechanism. Manitou 2 was OK to handle solo but it's very recreational.