• We apologize for the somewhat convoluted sign-up process. Due to ever-more sophisticated attacks by chatbots, we had to increase our filtering in order to weed out AI while letting humans through. It's a nuisance, but a necessary one in order to keep the level of discourse on the forums authentic and useful. From the actual humans using WCP, thanks for your understanding!

MMSI numbers --- only for large vessels or kayakers also?

Has anybody applied for an MMSI number as a canoeist or kayaker and gotten one?
MMSI is short for 'Maritime Mobile Service Identifier' --- it's a new, high-tech Coast Guard program where each vessel is issued it's own unique MMSI number that the newer, 'selective-calling', digital-mode-capable, marine VHF radios (not satellite phones) have the ability to transmit along with GPS-derived Lat/Long coordinates simply by pushing an emergency, 'panic' button down for five consecutive seconds.

There's a 2 or 3 character code representing most types of vessels that you are supposed to use in your application form for an MMSI number, but they all seem to be larger types, I don't see 'kayak', or 'vessel under oars', anywhere in annex E. Are MMSI numbers perhaps not intended for such small craft such as kayaks?

I'll get an AIS tronponder if it'll help, I'm very enthusiastic about this new technology.
 
For those unfamiliar with the VHF-DSC technology (which the MMSI is a part of), there's a bit of an explanation here:

http://boating.ncf.ca/vhfdsc.html

When I bought my VHF a couple of years ago, DSC was not a feature that was available on handhelds so the question you pose has only recently become relevant. It sounds like a nice feature to have, although I'm not sure how many marine-handhelds are DSC-capable right now. Certainly seems like something worth following though!
 
Cyberhun, a quick perusal of Icom's web site did not reveal any hand-held Marine VHF radios that are DSC-capable. I didn't dig really deep, but I'd think that if the radios were able to transmit a DSC signal, it would be a huge selling feature that Icom would advertise quite prominently on their site. I didn't check any other manufacturers but Icom is usually on the fore-front of technology, so if anyone had this feature on a hand-held, I'd assume Icom would.

Do you know for certain that there are hand-helds available with DSC technology? I doubt many kayakers would install a 'hard wired' VHF on their boat, as you would on a larger vessel. My understanding is that the MMSI is assigned to the vessel, not to the operator, so that in an emergency situation, when DSC is enabled, the signal reveals the MMSI which coresponds to a specific craft. So, when the Coast Guard is dispatched, they know exactly what type, colour, size etc. of vessel they're looking for. If DSC is not yet available on hand-helds, this may be the reason. Since a hand-held could be used on any vessel, it would somewhat defeat one of the advantages of the technology - that the type of vessel could be identified immediately when the DSC signal is received.
 
Standard Horizon has a couple of units that have the DSC feature.

Only problem.. it has to be in the cradle which has been previously hooked to a GPS system.

Pull the radio hit and hold the red button and the distress code is sent out with your location.

Somehow I can't see it being practical in a yak
 
Mark_Schilling said:
Cyberhun, a quick perusal of Icom's web site did not reveal any hand-held Marine VHF radios that are DSC-capable. I didn't dig really deep, but I'd think that if the radios were able to transmit a DSC signal, it would be a huge selling feature that Icom would advertise quite prominently on their site. I didn't check any other manufacturers but Icom is usually on the fore-front of technology, so if anyone had this feature on a hand-held, I'd assume Icom would.

Do you know for certain that there are hand-helds available with DSC technology? I doubt many kayakers would install a 'hard wired' VHF on their boat, as you would on a larger vessel. My understanding is that the MMSI is assigned to the vessel, not to the operator, so that in an emergency situation, when DSC is enabled, the signal reveals the MMSI which corresponds to a specific craft. So, when the Coast Guard is dispatched, they know exactly what type, colour, size etc. of vessel they're looking for. If DSC is not yet available on hand-helds, this may be the reason. Since a hand-held could be used on any vessel, it would somewhat defeat one of the advantages of the technology - that the type of vessel could be identified immediately when the DSC signal is received.
Click to expand...



Mark --- I guess for now, the Federal navigation people are going to ignore the latest data.

OK, will look forward to working with you in the future.
I'm deeply experienced with all of the emergency hidey holes to avoid the full blast of mother nature's fury.
 
cyberhun said:
Mark_Schilling said:
Cyberhun, a quick perusal of Icom's web site did not reveal any hand-held Marine VHF radios that are DSC-capable. I didn't dig really deep, but I'd think that if the radios were able to transmit a DSC signal, it would be a huge selling feature that Icom would advertise quite prominently on their site. I didn't check any other manufacturers but Icom is usually on the fore-front of technology, so if anyone had this feature on a hand-held, I'd assume Icom would.

Do you know for certain that there are hand-helds available with DSC technology? I doubt many kayakers would install a 'hard wired' VHF on their boat, as you would on a larger vessel. My understanding is that the MMSI is assigned to the vessel, not to the operator, so that in an emergency situation, when DSC is enabled, the signal reveals the MMSI which corresponds to a specific craft. So, when the Coast Guard is dispatched, they know exactly what type, colour, size etc. of vessel they're looking for. If DSC is not yet available on hand-helds, this may be the reason. Since a hand-held could be used on any vessel, it would somewhat defeat one of the advantages of the technology - that the type of vessel could be identified immediately when the DSC signal is received.
Click to expand...



Mark --- I guess for now, the Federal navigation people are going to ignore the latest data.

OK, will look forward to working with you in the future.
I'm deeply experienced with all of the emergency hidey holes to avoid the full blast of mother nature's fury.
Click to expand...


I didn't write this post. What's going on? Is there a possibility of some kind of unintentional error where a post is mis-labeled? Does anyone recognize this post as theirs?
 
cyberhun said:
cyberhun said:
Mark --- I guess for now, the Federal navigation people are going to ignore the latest data.

OK, will look forward to working with you in the future.
I'm deeply experienced with all of the emergency hidey holes to avoid the full blast of mother nature's fury.
Click to expand...


I didn't write this post. What's going on? Is there a possibility of some kind of unintentional error where a post is mis-labeled? Does anyone recognize this post as theirs?
Click to expand...

That seems strange, but I very much doubt it's anything gone wrong on our end. I might recommend that you change your password, and make sure you log out before leaving the computer. That way you can be sure that no-one else is posting with your account.
 
OK, I'll redo my password and stuff.

I got a reply from the Canadian Coasties about the MMSI number. Here's the contents of their e-mailed response:
--------------------
Tom,
Thanks for your inquiry. It brings up a good point. I think that you should pose this question to Industry Canada at
spectrum.pacific-pacifique.region@ic.gc.ca . I did speak to the Rescue Co-ordination Centre and they think that there shouldn't be a problem except for the vessel type. From our perspective as the Coast Guard, it would be good if you were able to put a description of your vessel under the area where you would put the vessel name (i.e. - 20ft red explorer single kayak-). I will forward this letter to the RCC for comments before I send it to you. Regards, Bruce Ricketts Supervisor Vancouver MCTS (604)775-8919
--------------------

I'll keep you guys posted as to the Industry Canada response (if any).
 
Forgot to mention that it's very strange that that post appears to have originated from my IP address given that nobody has access to this system. But why would anybody want to spoof my IP and make that post? Oh well. I'm really keeping track of what I post now so if it happens again I'll try to figure it out.

regards, Tom
(cyberhun)
 
After doing some more research, it seems to me that except for the pricey Uniden handheld (with integrated GPS), for the most part, this SC-101 protocol DSC feature is meant for large vessels with fixed mount radios.

The Uniden handheld, unfortunately, is too costly for me, this season, although this really is the way to go. In the future I'm sure all marine radios will implement some version of this function because it's an obvious choice and will save many lives.

Since I can't afford the Uniden HT this season, I'll just get a standard, type-certified marine VHF and possibly a GPS, I won't be applying for an MMSI number for my 'yak because I won't have a DSC-capable radio.

I do have a two meter hand held that I'll press into service. I understand that there is a repeater located on a hill close to Port Mcneil that provides excellent coverage as far north as Cape Caution. And I've been looking into solar panels as a way to top up my batteries. There is a boaters net on the tw meter band that I'll be involved with.

I strongly encourage my fellow kayakers to become involved in amateur radio. The license is really easy to get and once you have one, you'll always be capable of communicating --- even when others can't. Plus, you meet a great bunch of people. When disaster strikes and the normal lines of communication go down, amateur radio comes to the rescue, that's how robust it is.
 
Here's what the official authorities have to say:

Here's what the official authorities have to say:
--------------------
Thank you for your email dated 15 April 2007, requesting information on

Industry Canada's Maritime Mobile Service Identities (MMSI) program issues and maintains the following types of MMSIs:

- Ship Station MMSIs
- Ship Station Group MMSIs
- Coast Station MMSIs

An MMSI may be issued to ships that are fitted with one of the following radios:

- a ship earth station
- an automatic radio communication system
- a digital selective calling radio

An MMSI may also be issued to coast stations participating in automated radio communication systems.

A ship is not required to have a radio station licence to be issued an MMSI.

MMSI application forms are available from Industry Canada district offices and through the Strategis Web site.

Ship owners must provide specific information regarding their radio equipment and emergency contacts.

Please contact Industry Canada for additional information.

Maritime Mobile Service Identities (MMSI)
13401 108th Avenue, 17th Floor
Surrey, BC V3T 5V6

Tel.: 1-800-667-3780 8:30a.m. - 4:30p.m.
Fax: 604-666-5473

E-mail: vancouver.district@ic.gc.ca

Information on the Maritime Mobile Service Identities is available at the following URL:
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/smt ... 8386e.html

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require additional information.

Sincerely,

General inquiries / Renseignements généraux
613-993-0999
facsimile / télécopieur: 613-990-1866
TTY/ATS: 613-941-6517
info@dfo-mpo.gc.ca

Fisheries and Oceans Canada | 200 Kent Street Station 13228 Ottawa ON K1A 0E6
Pêches et Océans Canada | 200 rue Kent Station 13228 Ottawa (Ontario) K1A 0E6
Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada

-----Original Message-----
From: tom h [mailto:cyberhun@shaw.ca]
Sent: April 15, 2007 2:21 PM
To: XNCR, Info
Subject: mmsi number for a kayak

Hi

Can a kayaker get an MMSI number issued for his kayak, and then use a
hand held DSC-capable radio (with GPS) or are MMSI numbers intended only
for larger vessels?

Regards,
Tom
--------------------------

I wish I could afford the Uniden integrated Marine Handheld VHF with selcall and GPS --- then in an emergency, I could transmit my precise, up-to-the-second Lat/Long at the push of a button AND it would go over the public VHF distress frequency so anybody close by and monitoring would hear it.

Eminently practical for a 'yak --- if you can afford the $700 for the Uniden HT, that is. Which I can't right now. I also can't find any less expensive, handheld marine VHF rigs with selcall, which is too bad because GPS units are cheap and there could be some simple way to interface them.
I guess this season I'll be going with a regular VHF handheld and maybe a GPS.

Will keep the thread updated if I find any more info on this.
 
Re: Uniden risky

Duncan2 said:
I went to westmarine.com and their reviews of that model were not too good, 2/5 stars

link to reviews
Click to expand...

Agreed. I understand the antenna mount isn't very robust, the interface is counter-intuitive, and power consumption is excessive. These reviews your link pointed to are consistent with other reviews I've read.

Oh well, this is the first handheld implementation of DSC-selcall with integrated GPS that I've been able to find. I'm sticking to my guns in my assertion that this is the way to go, for the aforementioned reasons, but it'll probably take several iterations of end-user products before the big-gun makers get it right. But when they do --- I'm in. In the meantime, unless somebody can point me to a more well thought-out product, I'll be going with a regular waterproof VHF and maybe GPS on the side. Cheap and reliable (but mainly cheap).
:)
 
Cyberhun, here is a good discussion about various brands of VHF handhelds from this board. I have an Uniden Atlantis, but if I was to buy another handheld I would opt for an ICOM and as far as the DSC-enabled capable radios, would wait for them to come out with something and the technology to become more established (and less pricey).

Brad
 
The Victoria marine traffice services guy says the reason there's no annex "E" designation for kayaks is because it was thought only vessels with internal power systems would ever use DSC. Here's the reply I got from my email to them:
-----------------
>Good Day Sir,
>
>There is no DSC designation for kayaks or row-only boat, presumably
>because when the communications governing body designed this system they
>didn't feel a need to designate any vessel that didn't outright have a
>power source to run the unit. My suggestion would just be for you to
>register for an MMSI number and use the "Pleasure Craft" descriptor.
>
>With regards to your radar reflector question, it's definitely
>recommended if you can find one that'll fit your vessel. Because of the
>construction of a kayak, and the make-up of the kit that kayakers
>normally carry and wear, there is little-to-no chance that a radar would
>ever be able to see you. If you are unable to find an adequate
>reflector, then my recommendation would be that you not travel at night
>or in visibility limiting weather. If you must travel under those
>conditions, then use your radio to call the nearest Coast Guard Radio
>station and advise them of your position, your intended route and what
>time you think you'll make landfall -- this way we can pass that
>information onto the Vessel Traffic Service position who'll advise
>vessels in your area to watch out for you. If you do avail yourself of
>this latter option, then you'll have to remember to call the Coast Guard
>station and let them know you've arrived.
>
>Canadian Coast Radios no longer monitor 22A as their working channel, we
>now monitor 83A (24 hours per day), as well as our constant listening
>watch on VHF channel 16.
>
>Thank you for your interest, I hope this is helpful.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Robert Crooks
>Acting Watch Supervisor
>Victoria MCTS
>
-----------------
 
GordB said:
Standard Horizon has a couple of units that have the DSC feature.

Only problem.. it has to be in the cradle which has been previously hooked to a GPS system.

Pull the radio hit and hold the red button and the distress code is sent out with your location.

Somehow I can't see it being practical in a yak
Click to expand...

Thinking it might be possible to get an extra cable or something that would enable interfacing a GPS without the cradle, I emialed the makers, and unfortunately, you absolutely have to have the cradle, unfortunately.
Still, if a guy had one of these rigs anyway, and a GPS, maybe ....

---------------
Tom,

The cradle and the GPS unit would have to be on the kayak for you to use the
DSC capabilities; I know this is not possible. So, unfortunately, you will
not be able to use the DSC function.

Best Regards,
Raul Hernandez


-----Original Message-----
From: tom h [mailto:cyberhun@shaw.ca]
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 10:52 AM
To: marinetech
Subject: HX600S gps interface cable question

Hi marinetech

I'm a kayaker who is interested in a DSC capable handheld marine VHF. Can
the HX600S be interfaced with a GPS without having to be in it's charging
cradle? If not, this makes it rather inapplicable for use on a kayak where
there will be no cradle.
I looked at the accessories and don't see any such cable.


Regards,

Tom H.
 
So, then I sent Raul the following email:
------------------
Hi Raul

Is that by design? Or was the possibility of directly connecting a GPS without the cradle simply over looked?
You'd have a lot of kayakers buying this rig if you were to make available an optional cable to connect a GPS without a cradle.
I know, the designers of the DSC protocol anticipated that only larger vessels with built-in power systems would use DSC, thus the annex "E" which contains a listing of codes to designate your vessel type when obtaining an MMSI number has no codes for kayaks, rowboats, etc.
However, the times, they are a changin'. Uniden has a DSC capable handheld with integrated GPS, but it is way overpriced, not very robust and consumes too much power.
Of course, you can't officially recommend jury-rigging anything, but how difficult would that be? I'm guessing not very --- do you have any comment on that?
Are any plans in the works to market a version that IS capable of being connected to a GPS without a cradle? Or with an integrated GPS?
I've been in touch with our local Marine Traffic Control Center in Victoria, BC, and ther are in favor of kayaks obtaining MMSI numbers, there is no official policy of limiting MMSI/DSC to vessels large enough to have built in power systems.

Regards,
Tom
------------------
 
Re: MMSI numbers --- only for large vessels or kayakers also

cyberhun said:
Has anybody applied for an MMSI number as a canoeist or kayaker and gotten one?
Click to expand...
We are going to find out. I picked up a new radio last weekend and spent some time yesterday with CG in Vancouver.
They said fill in the MMSI application, as well as I was able, and send it in. I did that today so now comes the waiting part.
I'll let you all know of the outcome.
FYI I'll not be using GPS so it will have to be DF'ing of the radio signal, but this didn't seem to bother the CG person I spoke to.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top