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off shore kayaks on CList

camshaft

Paddler
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
385
Has anyone seen these FG kayaks being sold in whiterock ?
Some one was asking me about them but my obvious concern was quality control. As they are being made off shore and standards some times are way below normal.



Kayak - $900 (White Rock)

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Date: 2010-07-10, 4:15PM PDT
Reply to: sale-zpvac-1836344246@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]

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Brand New Fibreglass Kayak For Sale Only $900

Kayak Has Excellent Secondary Stability And Tracks Very Straight In The Water.
Kayak Has A Gel-Coat Finish With Two Storage Compartments.

17ft 9 in Long
Weight 60Ibs


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Ya thats exactly what i was thinking..
Can see picking it up from the handles and the supports tearing out

waverider said:
Seen the add on Clist too. Old saying of " you get what you pay for " comes to mind.
 
These boats have been for sale since at least last fall, and the prices keep falling. The fact that they are made off shore is not an indication of poor quality: by all accounts, the Thailand-made Necky composites are industry leaders for quality. What is more troubling is that these ads have never listed a make or model. You get the sense that they were produced by a little known maker and have not been attracting customers; hence, the long time on C-list.

It's quite possible that these boats are dark horses, awesomely made and designed at a killer price. It is also possible (and likelier, IMHO) that they are not selling for a reason.

The last 12 months have been a great time to shop for used boats off C-list, particularly the Seattle-Tacoma page, since the moribund economy has meant many people are selling off toys they do not use. If you are in the market for a used composite boat, I suggest you look in the $1700-2000 range, since there are still lots of good boats by reputable builders available at that price point. There are some very nice boats on WCP's classifieds that are definitely worth a look (a Solstice, a Romany, a Gulstream). For the price of a new plastic boat you can get a sweet composite with tons of life left in it. I wish I had two grand doing nothing in my bank account...

Cheers,
Andrew
 
As something of a Craigslist hound myself,I've seen those boats for the last 2 years or so. When they started out they listed the brand as MasonMarine, and the models as Cativa(the rudder model red boat) and Classic (the rudderless yellow one). I think those are the same as what's being sold now,sans brand name,though I could be wrong?
As to offshore this and offshore that, give me a break.Many of the "brand name" boats are made "offshore"(and some made better than they were when production was back in North America). Not to mention most other outdoor gear,everyday products and some "Domestic" cars( example- current Suzuki Swift, Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac G3/Wave,all a product of KOREA made by Daewoo).
So my point is origin has little to do with it.Heck, the NDK boats built in ENGLAND have probably the most dubious rep for quality control(or lack of) and I've heard some nightmare stories about Current Designs quality from when they were in BC.
Not to say those 900$ boats are necessarily any good, they probably aren't,but I'd be curious to see what they actually hold up like. My main concern with a layup that's not very well done is easy delamination on impact like I've seen with the composite Venture Kyle that MEC dumped on one of the gear swaps(composite versions of the Easky series).
This past weekend I saw one of those $900 yellow boats on the water, this old timer dude made it look good surfing a wave in the Ambleside rip(though no idea how much of it was the boat and how much the guy in it,the wave wasn't anything technical either)
The big question with no-name boats is who designed them and did any R&D and how will they actually behave like? But I have a feeling they probably largely copied a Solstice-type boat for the red one and,well,i don't know about the yellow.
 
Well put Rider, :clap: just because something is made offshore doesn't automatically make it bad. Conversely made in N.America doesn't have to mean good either. Remember in many of these "offshore" manufacturing countries wages are cents on the dollar. As Rider correctly states many items sold under "big name" N.American (or European) branding are made "offshore"... does this make them better simply because we perceive the manufacturer to be N.American? Does the same item if then marketed directly instead of through a "branded" company suddenly lose all credibility?
A fg layup is possibly capable of being performed offshore due to the lack of many health & safety regs that would bump the cost significantly if made here. Do you want to support that type of worker use/ abuse or the export on jobs? That's a personal choice only you as a buyer can answer.
It may be that the boat has simply been copied (legally or illegally) from an existing design... (looks mighty similar to some I've seen) so, no development or testing costs (someone else did all that for you) Of course if these boats are of "similar" quality to big brand names it begs the obvious question "are we being overcharged by the big boys?"
Personally I'd like to see one of these boats up close & personal (not that I'd really know what to look for) &/ or tested by someone who really knows padding & kayak building before casting doubts as to their quality, just because they're made "offshore". Just my .02c (FWIW)
 
Thanks Rider, Kermode

I should have rephrased that comment about offshore constructioin. As you are correct many name brands are made off shore these days. The biggest factor would be quality control of the construction. My personal experience is a number of people are selling offshore build items on craigslist. Which are far below normal market price and are copies. Which is fine but the copies are of very poor quality and construction which is why the price is so attractive.

So it would be nice if someone has actually seen one of these in person to comment on its construction. If its actually not bad quality and a great buy for 900

thks



rider said:
As something of a Craigslist hound myself,I've seen those boats for the last 2 years or so. When they started out they listed the brand as MasonMarine, and the models as Cativa(the rudder model red boat) and Classic (the rudderless yellow one). I think those are the same as what's being sold now,sans brand name,though I could be wrong?
As to offshore this and offshore that, give me a break.Many of the "brand name" boats are made "offshore"(and some made better than they were when production was back in North America). Not to mention most other outdoor gear,everyday products and some "Domestic" cars( example- current Suzuki Swift, Chevrolet Aveo, Pontiac G3/Wave,all a product of KOREA made by Daewoo).
So my point is origin has little to do with it.Heck, the NDK boats built in ENGLAND have probably the most dubious rep for quality control(or lack of) and I've heard some nightmare stories about Current Designs quality from when they were in BC.
Not to say those 900$ boats are necessarily any good, they probably aren't,but I'd be curious to see what they actually hold up like. My main concern with a layup that's not very well done is easy delamination on impact like I've seen with the composite Venture Kyle that MEC dumped on one of the gear swaps(composite versions of the Easky series).
This past weekend I saw one of those $900 yellow boats on the water, this old timer dude made it look good surfing a wave in the Ambleside rip(though no idea how much of it was the boat and how much the guy in it,the wave wasn't anything technical either)
The big question with no-name boats is who designed them and did any R&D and how will they actually behave like? But I have a feeling they probably largely copied a Solstice-type boat for the red one and,well,i don't know about the yellow.
 
Found this:

http://www.kajjj.ca/

And then I realized that I have seen one at a local sporting goods store (who also resell used equipment) -- I didn't think the build was at all good, in fact I thought it was pretty bad. If I were looking for a serious sea kayak, I wouldn't even consider these boats.

*****
 
Hey Dan! thanks for the input, & the link... not looking to put you (or anyone else) on the spot but could you give us some examples of why the build quality was pretty bad? Was it cosmetics & finishing or was it items you as an experienced kayaker would consider as safety concerns or even dangerous?
There are purchasers who may be prepared to accept a little "scruffy finishing" to save $$$.
As I said not looking to put you or anyone else on the spot, so an "unable to comment" would be ok if you think that is appropriate.
ps are you able to say where you saw one? I wouldn't mind taking a look, Thanks
 
The kayak that I saw (several months ago) was at Sports Replay in Langley (on the Bypass) -- they had two of them at the time, I have no idea if they still have them or not. I wasn't impressed with the boat for a couple of big reasons -- first and most important, the layup was really, really thin and inconsistent -- I doubt that boat could take many hits before it catastrophically failed. Secondly, the finishing on the inside of the boat was awful -- lots of coarse areas in the glassing and I felt a few sharps running my hand around the underside of the hatch areas. All things that scream poor workmanship.

Have you ever seen a kayak with deck rigging like that one? This in itself strongly suggests that whoever designed, and/or manufactured these boats knows little about paddling.

There's a reason why good kayaks cost what they do.

*****
 
the Mason Marine boat is an old Necky Tesla that was chopped in half. They made a plug of hull and deck and then created a mold, and these boats are being manufactured in Vietnam. there are some differences in the deck design but the hull is a Tesla knock-off.

They also have a couple of other models, one a 19 foot long skeg boat whos bow is so pointy and sharp that it could have been used as a weapon in medieval times!

Build quality on them is not great, very very rough and heavy as well. Buyer beware.

They brought in a container load of these 2 summers ago and sold them all. More followed, and these are the scraps that are left now that they have a poor reputation and no one to follow up on service issue or QC issues with.

I see the truck with the boats on it all the time in White Rock as whomever it is who sells these lives out there not too far from my place.

As always, education and purchasing from a reputable dealer will avoid any issues with dodgy boats unless you are a professional boat appreciator who knows what to look for when buying boats off of CL adn various other internet sites.
 
Dan, Mike thanks fort the information, :big_thumb always good to have genuine information & knowledge passed on by those who know.
 
thanks mike and dan

Thanks for the info, glad i used my spidey-sense and didn't even bother to look at them.



mikec said:
the Mason Marine boat is an old Necky Tesla that was chopped in half. They made a plug of hull and deck and then created a mold, and these boats are being manufactured in Vietnam. there are some differences in the deck design but the hull is a Tesla knock-off.

They also have a couple of other models, one a 19 foot long skeg boat whos bow is so pointy and sharp that it could have been used as a weapon in medieval times!

Build quality on them is not great, very very rough and heavy as well. Buyer beware.

They brought in a container load of these 2 summers ago and sold them all. More followed, and these are the scraps that are left now that they have a poor reputation and no one to follow up on service issue or QC issues with.

I see the truck with the boats on it all the time in White Rock as whomever it is who sells these lives out there not too far from my place.

As always, education and purchasing from a reputable dealer will avoid any issues with dodgy boats unless you are a professional boat appreciator who knows what to look for when buying boats off of CL adn various other internet sites.
 
I seem to recall mikec paddling one of them. Even as accomplished as he is it seemed like a battle to make it turn.
 
I think that the important point here is customer support. I bought an old CD... and it has needs (decking chords and such) but I know there is a place in Portland that sells them, and supports them.

Seems like I would rather buy a used boat from a known manufacturer then a new boat with no known support system.
 
(Assuming these are the same boats) I, too, have seen these ads, and when I was in the market for my touring boat went out to look at these. The guy was/is? actually based out of Crescent Beach. Lives in a nice, big house just above the water on the hill, and has a building down at the marina where they were stored.

Similar in price (though think it was $950 at the time). He was conveniently not there when I went to look at it, his wife showed it to me. Wouldn't let me go for a test paddle.

I didn't know what to look for at the time in terms of layup quality, etc. To be honest, still don't. But have always had a sense of whether something was quality, or not. My impression was that it was somewhat thin, but perhaps adequate in layup. But what left the biggest impression was that everything else reeked of cheepness. Rudder, mounting hardware, etc. all very plastic-y and made me think it might break or snap off after a very short period of time.

But maybe, for that price, upgrade the hardware and you've got a good enough boat, eh?
 
I bought 1 of these boats and am pretty satisfied with it...I'm sure there are far better boats but a fiberglass kayak for $900 is a great deal. I met the guy out at Crescent Beach and he let me take a test boat out for a paddle and liked it end of story. This is my second season paddling with this boat and I haven't had any problems...it tracks nice and cuts through the waves well. He imports them by the container load out of Vietnam...if you felt like getting 10 of them I think they would only cost you like 350 a piece.
 
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