• We apologize for the somewhat convoluted sign-up process. Due to ever-more sophisticated attacks by chatbots, we had to increase our filtering in order to weed out AI while letting humans through. It's a nuisance, but a necessary one in order to keep the level of discourse on the forums authentic and useful. From the actual humans using WCP, thanks for your understanding!

paddles again

introduction to Greenland paddles by Brian Schultz of Cape Falcon Kayaks. As he states in the video, a Greenland paddle is used with a more high angle stroke in order to get the long narrow blade submerged.
And unfortunately so many say the opposite. High angle gets the blade in as close to the hull as possible and body/shoulder rotation move it out a little which means no flutter.
Greenland and Aleut paddles are also somewhat subject to flutter
The moving out from the hull means water is coming off one edge, the edge nearest to the hull. An Aleut paddle is an asymmetrical foil Greenland one, basically.
If you are a cyclist, then you probably know the concept of spinning on a bike.
Another thing that cyclists need to be taught. Use the gears, gear down at the slightest rise or head wind.
 
CycleGranny, note that proper technique doesn’t mean it will “feel right” at the beginning. When I see xc skiers who are self-taught, their body mechanics might “feel right” to them - but at the day’s end, they will probably be feeling it more than someone who has exercised proper balance and glide.

So with forward stroke - for me it felt strange. I just wanted to move my arms - so much easier than keeping my arms more static and rotating my torso. It might have taken a year - but I don’t get out that often - before it finally “clicked” and I started using more of my body (core muscles, pushing with my feet) that just my arms.

For me, the - shall I call it the Lazy Way - felt right. But working and working to hold the “paddler’s box” eventually became the motion my body expects. I live in a High Desert - not a lot of surf. The High Lakes are close off from Nov till May. So I’m in a constant state of “rusty”.

My point is - you absolutely need TIB (Time in Boat). But, it really, really helps if you get some good technique instruction so what you practice during that TIB is what you need to learn.
 
Last edited:
I started off paddling with a second hand paddle which was free. An old Carlisle wing blade, on a length and feather angle adjustable shaft. The lowest demarcated angle is 60 degrees (though one could eyeball lower, there's no notches as on Werner or Aquabound ferrules).
As such, I ended up with a fairly high angle stroke and really focusing on torso rotation. It didn't feel natural to start with, but it was the movement I could tell was most effective. Occasionally I'd string a few 'perfect' strokes together and it would feel almost effortless.
If I used too much arm and elbow I would feel it pretty quickly.

I tried out a Werner Shuna, and immediately realized that I had been missing out on a lot of opportunities to learn strokes other than forward and reverse. I ended up with a Cyprus, which is similar to the Shuna but a little bit nicer feel on entry and exit.
It's a great paddle. Initially 210 cm felt a bit short, but now I've gotten used to it and it feels great. Can't imagine wanting a longer paddle.

Low angle paddles are often marketed to beginners, but I really do question the validity of this. Especially when the trend seems to be for longer paddles than are perhaps ideal. Maybe low angle is more forgiving of poor form.

Many paddle companies claim that most paddles prefer a low angle paddle, especially when putting in a long day of paddling. I find this a bit odd, given that there's a less efficient transfer of energy with a wider (lower angle) stroke. So on a long paddle where the overwhelming majority of strokes will be forward, how would lower angle be an advantage? Again, maybe low angle is easier on the body, especially if form declines over a day of paddling.

All of this is to say paddles are subjective and I guess the best way to find the perfect paddle is to try as many as you can.
 
I started off paddling with a second hand paddle which was free. An old Carlisle wing blade, on a length and feather angle adjustable shaft. The lowest demarcated angle is 60 degrees (though one could eyeball lower, there's no notches as on Werner or Aquabound ferrules).
As such, I ended up with a fairly high angle stroke and really focusing on torso rotation. It didn't feel natural to start with, but it was the movement I could tell was most effective. Occasionally I'd string a few 'perfect' strokes together and it would feel almost effortless.
If I used too much arm and elbow I would feel it pretty quickly.

I tried out a Werner Shuna, and immediately realized that I had been missing out on a lot of opportunities to learn strokes other than forward and reverse. I ended up with a Cyprus, which is similar to the Shuna but a little bit nicer feel on entry and exit.
It's a great paddle. Initially 210 cm felt a bit short, but now I've gotten used to it and it feels great. Can't imagine wanting a longer paddle.

Low angle paddles are often marketed to beginners, but I really do question the validity of this. Especially when the trend seems to be for longer paddles than are perhaps ideal. Maybe low angle is more forgiving of poor form.

Many paddle companies claim that most paddles prefer a low angle paddle, especially when putting in a long day of paddling. I find this a bit odd, given that there's a less efficient transfer of energy with a wider (lower angle) stroke. So on a long paddle where the overwhelming majority of strokes will be forward, how would lower angle be an advantage? Again, maybe low angle is easier on the body, especially if form declines over a day of paddling.

All of this is to say paddles are subjective and I guess the best way to find the perfect paddle is to try as many as you can.

Thanks for the input CPS
 
  • Like
Reactions: CPS
Low angle paddles are often marketed to beginners . . . . Maybe low angle is more forgiving of poor form.

the following is an aside comment relative to the above -

at the extremes with no feather, the lowest paddle angle possible means absolutely no paddle rotation, no arm rotation, no wrist rotation, but just horizontal-plane body rotation is required to move the kayak to a reasonable pace at low [especially arm] effort.

I have used this feature on occasion for part of 2 consecutive days after unexpected elbow strain injury by essentially resting the paddle loom on the sprayskirt, adjusting the feather angle to 0, and just barely dipping each blade in the water with simplistic horizontal torso rotation and minimal if any relative arm and especially wrist movement.

so low angle is without doubt easy for beginners, can give a little unrealized support, and can be useful in other scenarios as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CPS
About low angle paddling stroke:
I was reading some posts on Dan Caouette's Facebook page - he's a very skilled builder in NewHampshire.
A Swedish builder posted a review of his newly-built Thomasson Frej, and when discussing the skeg, said:
I've found that paddling with a Greenland paddle requires the use of the skeg when paddling forward to a slightly greater degree than when paddling with a flat paddle / wing paddle and a high-angle paddle stroke. Probably because the Greenland paddle usually gives a little more sweeping movements further from the boat than with the other paddle types. But as I said, the skeg is there for a reason, and works great.

So that could be an argument against recommending a low angle stroke to a beginner, since most people find it a bit tricky to keep the kayak moving in a straight line until they have some experience.
I know that in theory paddlers can use a high-angle stroke with a Greenland paddle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CPS
For better or worse, I am no longer a fit twenty-something, ready to put in 8 hours of perfect strokes and bounce back the next day. I paddled most of my life with euro-blades, until this year, when I lost my beloved Werner (Little Dipper) on a 2 week trip. My friend loaned me his Greenland Paddle (and then I made a new one for myself) and I haven't looked back since. I will try not to rehash the discussion here except to make my case this way:

I started out as a canoe paddler in lakes and rivers. My 2nd favourite paddle is my Grey Owl bent-shaft. My absolute favourite paddle is an Otter Tail. Is it the most efficient in a marathon? No, but it's more versatile for all the strokes you need in different situations. Now turn to kayaking. You're sitting at or below the waterline. Your boat is narrower. You're at the center, not at the ends. Still, the same principles apply.

A vertical stroke pulled closer to the centerline translates to forward speed better. You're crunching your abs to do it (so sit up straight). A low angle presents less windage, allows you to add in a little sweep at the bow end or draw at the stern end, translating to better boat control. You're twisting your torso, engaging more muscle groups to do it. Which is better? On an 4, 6, 8 hour paddle, I change from high to low and back again. I have to use all the tricks I can to keep up.

A GL paddle, like my old Otter Tail, does this better than a Euro-blade oriented for a specific style of paddling.

* edits for clarity and spelling
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CPS
As for Freya, she lost one of her Wing paddles off the West Coast of NZ and it is now used by a local who is a climber and caver but sometimes paddles (all the way) around New Zealand, Japan, Australia, Britain and Alaska and writes books about those trips.
That's very interesting. I'm the one that found the paddle, washed up about 20km north of where she lost it, in Ross, and I was told the paddle was being sent back to her. I guess that's why she never said thanks.

It was a beautiful thing

Any links to the stories by the new owner?
 
The person who ended up with it had this to say in the KASK magazine story about it -
"It goes with me to Greenland, and I am counting on it to allow me to keep up with the young fella."
 
Back
Top