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Replacing footpeg rail stud

J

JohnAbercrombie

Paddler
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
3,505
Location
Victoria, BC
I like thru-bolts for mounting footpeg rails. They are simple, and if you want to remove the footpeg rails to use a bulkhead footboard, it's easy to plug the holes.
Also, if you are paddling up to a capsized kayak, it's easy to tell which end is the bow, by looking for those machine screw heads near the seam tape.

A friend brought a Zegul kayak over to my shop today. It's amazing all the ways that things can break. :)
The stud which was glassed to the inside of the hull had snapped right where it was welded to the mounting plate.
mini-DSCN4705.JPG


First step was some careful grinding with a small flap wheel and a Dremel.
mini-DSCN4709.JPG

Then with some scraping with a pointed carbide scraper, the old stud plate could be removed.
After cleaning up the area, I could tack the new stud in place with some QuikWood epoxy putty. (I mounted the new stud to the footrail and used that as the locator.)

mini-DSCN4712.JPG


Then it was just a matter of new thickened epoxy and glass cloth over the stud plate, with PeelPly to make later sanding unnecessary.
mini-DSCN4719.JPG


Ready to get the footrail and get outta here! :)
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It's nice when the parts box has just what is needed.
:thumbsup:
Boat is ready for a rolling practice session tomorrow.
 
Mac50L said:
Stress holes through the hull -
Click to expand...
Stress holes?? What's that?

You've said your boats are just painted plywood without epoxy or glass, it's probably best to minimize the number of through-holes. Even in wood-core glass boats, it's a good idea to 'line' any holes with epoxy, which can be tedious work.

You don't use commercial side-mount footpeg rails anyway, do you?
 
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JohnAbercrombie said:
Paddling around Alaska is still one of those 'ultimate challenges', I think.
Click to expand...
Paul Caffyn gave a talk on his trip round Alaska and ending up in Inuvik. There were about 35+ people at the talk. This is in New Zealand. I pointed out at the end of the talk, during question time, that there were two people in the room who had been to Inuvik though not by kayak. Considering that Inuvik is the back of nowhere, that is typical of people from this country (NZ).

The other person who had been to Inuvik, I paddle with and she built her own kayak. I was either trekking the Himalayas or paddling 38 days round Vanua Levu, Fiji at the time of her Alaskan trip. Note - she also trekked over the Chilkoot Pass on that trip.

Around Alaska 1989 – 1991 | Paul Caffyn

paulcaffyn.co.nz

I apologise for getting off the fibreglass and bolts subject.
 
It must be the season for stud bolts to break - here's another one.
This time, it's a Sterling Ice Cap and the bolt is a 'heftier' 1/4-20 size.
It's nice when it's the bolt closest to the cockpit that breaks. :)
broken stud.JPG

plate uncovered 2.JPG

The plate wasn't sitting on a very solid 'bed'. I think it was silicone sealant or perhaps hot melt glue?
The owner reported that this stud had been replaced 3-4 years ago at Blackline.
But it was just a weld failure, as far as I could see.
silicone under plate.JPG

Cleaned up and ready for the new stud. Rod Tait (Orca Boats) got the new stud to me in very quick time. Thanks!
cleaned and ready for new stud.JPG


New stud stuck in the correct place with epoxy putty
IMG_0337.JPG

IMG_0338.JPG


Epoxy thickened with Cabosil (Fumed Silica Anti-Sag) worked under and around plate, then 3 layers of 6 oz glass laminated over.
PeelPly minimizes cleanup.
IMG_0341.JPG

IMG_0342.JPG
 
JohnAbercrombie said:
The owner reported that this stud had been replaced 3-4 years ago at Blackline.
Click to expand...

If it hadn't been for this I'd have asked for the year of that Ice Kap, wondering about a bad batch of those Sealect studs - I did one recently as well. Having said that, the bolt being welded to the plate and there potentially being force on a slight angle, there could be more sheer force involved?
 
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It seems these studs will be a continuing source of work for both pro and hobby repairpersons! :)

I was thinking about why the stud failed, but didn't come to any conclusion.
There's not much 'meat' to the weld between the threaded stud and the base plate.
If the footpeg rail isn't sitting flat against the hull, it doesn't help. It's better IMO to ream the footpeg rail hole than to force it on to the stud 'at an angle', which I've seen sometimes.
Also, if the nuts get a bit loose, then we lose the friction between the rail and the hull and all the force is bearing on that threaded stud, thousands of times an hour.
 
- not much 'meat' to the weld between the threaded stud and the base plate
- angled stud may become compromised

an additional failure mitigation [I haven't used] that might be useful would be to resin/glass a small stop to the hull immediately at the front of the rail. That way shear forces would be spread over a much larger area.

for example, conceptually, if the studs were replaced by the oridnary bolts but inside the hull and the equivalent hull thickness of glass was put over them just like the anchor bolts, the situation would be almost identical to the unsightly external boltheads showing . . . like if the overlay was the typical size, what's the diff? other than the additional thickness of the carriage bolthead over the thickness of the stud base thickness - not much, eh? So either do that, or add an equivalent area stop to the front of the rail.

idea, anyway.
 
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I'm not sure a carriage bolt would resist turning - it takes a bit of torque to get the Nylock nut on.
With a through machine-screw, a helper with a (large) screwdriver takes care of that problem.
In the past, I've improvised plates from plate stainless, and put a carriage bolt through a square hole in the plate - all held together with JB Weld epoxy . That worked OK and didn't depend on a weld for strength. Forming a 'dent' (like a countersink) in the plate helped to lower the profile a bit.

I really really 'don't get it' about the aversion to through bolts. I guess it's the same mentality that I see in the 'work of art' clear finish strip boat world (and skin boat Greenland world) where builders think deck lines are ugly, so omit them. IMO, a kayak is a paddle machine, a vehicle for fun and exploration. Non-functional and non-reliable aren't pretty in that context. IMO of course! :)

One big plus for through bolts - aside from the very marked superiority in strength- becomes obvious if you ever decide to remove the footpeg rail and use the bulkhead as a footrest. With through bolts, it's pretty easy to remove the bolts and fill the holes, putting a simple glass patch on the inside. Removing studs at arms length is a different matter altogether.

Also, through bolts (machine screws) open up possibilities for tapped holes in footpeg rails. The heavy self-tapping style screws that come with the SeaLect footpegs work really well, and since they are driven into plastic, galling and corrosion aren't issues. A SS machine screw into an aluminum rail needs good anti-seize or Tef-Gel to make later removal easier.
 
Depending on when that stud was manufactured, there was a time (years ago) in which they were breaking. I had some as well. Sealect acknowledged it to me and then they found a new supplier/welder, because they were not happy with the old supplier. I have not had any break since.
 
OrcaBoats said:
Depending on when that stud was manufactured, there was a time (years ago) in which they were breaking. I had some as well. Sealect acknowledged it to me and then they found a new supplier/welder, because they were not happy with the old supplier. I have not had any break since.
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Thanks for this information, Rod.
 
I really really 'don't get it' about the aversion to through bolts.

all your points make good sense [maybe aside from corrosion aesthetics and effects] - even if stud shearing is not a problem anymore.

However the aversion [in my case at least] comes from the visual intrusion of unexpected material and seemingly arbitrary placement of blobs of something on the simplicity of the kayak form. It would be far better if the chromed or SS'd boltheads were either painted out or even better [not functionally] placed on the hull/deck seam or any S&G panel seam, but they rarely are.

Very personally speaking [ie me only], for a similar reason, I dislike all appurtenances glued or affixed on the surface of the simple kayak form. This of course includes, bowloops, perimeter lines, compasses, map holders, deckbags, paddleholders, paddlebritches [effing horrors], lights, peg bolts, harnesses etc etc. [And I do have many of them on my kayaks] And altho' functional - for the same reason I just abhor the ubiquitous black rubber deck hatches that seemingly are required on many kayaks we see out there. As I've noted before, they remind me of sewer lids on large plastic sewer kayaks.
But heck, that's just me - why do we all have to be the same?
 
Heh heh,
so I had a boat and its outfitting like that many years ago, and was fooling around with cowboy re-entries from the very very back in quite windy and wavy conditions. As I clambered up the back, the wet kayak pointed into the air somewhat - and because there were no perimeter lines - it all of a sudden 'squirted' up into the air [like squeezing a bar of wet slimy soap] only to rapidly end up being blown a considerable distance away. It was just so funny and unexpected - and would have been a serious situation if it was for real.
 
Mick.
I get what you are saying. I like internal bungee cords to hold hatches closed.
But. Ugly external straps might be needed in rough water.
 
JohnAbercrombie said:
I really really 'don't get it' about the aversion to through bolts. I guess it's the same mentality that I see in the 'work of art' clear finish strip boat world (and skin boat Greenland world) where builders think deck lines are ugly, so omit them. IMO, a kayak is a paddle machine, a vehicle for fun and exploration. Non-functional and non-reliable aren't pretty in that context. IMO of course! :)

Also, through bolts (machine screws) open up possibilities for tapped holes in footpeg rails. The heavy self-tapping style screws that come with the SeaLect footpegs work really well, and since they are driven into plastic, galling and corrosion aren't issues. A SS machine screw into an aluminum rail needs good anti-seize or Tef-Gel to make later removal easier.
Click to expand...

I agree with you John, there's nothing wrong with a through bolt: keep it simple stupid. Kayaks can be, and are, a work of art, but I can't see the through bolt from the cockpit.

Very good point about SS galling and corrosion due to dissimilar metals. Anti-seize should always be used on SS threads, no matter if its two SS fasteners or SS used with steel or aluminum (especially aluminum). Here's an example of SS galling on an heat exchanger's tube plate when anti-seize isn't used.

Stainless steel galling.JPG
 
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