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Seaward Tyee or Vision?

kayakwriter

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Feb 27, 2006
Messages
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After 13 years of hard use and faithful service, my Northwest kayaks Discovery XL is aging out. I'm looking at Seaward kayaks for a replacement, both because of their reputation for being well built and because I get a great deal on them via my employer.

I realize the Tyee is the comfy, stable tour company client boat, but that might not be a bad thing given my wont for putting sails on my boat. The Vision looks to be faster and a bit less stable. Some reviews suggest it's hard to turn, but straight tracking could be a good thing when I'm sailing.

I do lots of weekend trips over a summer, where I like the capacity to travel in luxury. Each year, I also do at least one 2-3 week paddle up north. On those trips, I do outer coast paddling, but I'm not seeking out surf zones and I avoid surf landings whenever possible.

I'm thinking I'd get the extra keel lay-up, and have the front bulkhead pushed back to increase room in the bow compartment and reduce floodable cockpit volume. I'm also considering the HV option with the extra 3/4 inch of depth, both for the additional cargo room and because my aging legs and knees like room to move around.

Opinions and insights welcome, especially from those with touring experience with either or both models. Thanks in advance.
 
In HV, how do these spec out compared to your existing boat? If an HV Tyee or Vision has more volume for storage than what you have now, how will that work out come time to hump it up the beach when you land? Speaking as a person older than you are, lighter is better for aging joints.

They are both wonderful boats. A hard choice. Were it mine, I would go HV Tyee I think. Gives you most or all of what a standard Vision has, but with a slightly narrower beam. Can't see cross sections of the hull on the Seaward site, which would be the other deal maker/breaker for me. [Edit]

PS Definitely time to upgrade. Going on 15 years with the same boat? Man, some people are lucky to last that long with a spouse!
 
kayakwriter said:
I realize the Tyee is the comfy, stable tour company client boat
I have a Tyee and personally I love it. In fact I have 2-17' boats a rotomolded Current Designs "Storm" and the fiberglass "Tyee". I haven't paddled a lot of boats but the Tyee is by far the best boat I have ever paddled.

Terry
145771081.jpg
 
We had Tyees last year on a 8 day trip in the Queen Charlottes.

Good - they carry a ton of gear, are roomy and stable, handle reasonably well.

Bad - they had (lastest might not) sliding rudder pedals, a bad design 3 decades ago, still a bad design. It means nothing to brace against, can get hard to use with grit in the tracks (had that problem in Australia on a borrowed kayak) and that rudderlines are not as easy to adjust as they should be (when designed well).

They pound in a chop e.g. badly designed and it doesn't take much to it properly (I know).

Their fitting out is terrible - no aft deck lines. I did see one later in Halifax and it did have aft decklines, about a handspan long from the end of the rudder. Stupid as the deck fittings had the holes ready for proper decklines. A bungy is Not a deckline. And decklines are like safety belts - can save your life.

You can sort out most points except the pounding in a seaway. It is due to the bottom looking like someone took two plywood sheets (to make up the mould) and ran them straight with no change in the deadrise. Increasing the deadrise towards the ends stops pounding.
 
Mac50L said:
They pound in a chop e.g. badly designed and it doesn't take much to it properly (I know).
Not sure i would agree with that but everyone has their own opinion and they are certainly entitled to it. I do agree they have a huge cargo capacity much more than my Storm which is the same size.

terry
 
I used to have a Tyee, and just finished a trip where a friend of mine had a rental. Here's my thoughts on it:

The good: Super stable, decently fast and easy to paddle, tons of cargo capacity, built like a tank.

The bad: Neoprene + plastic hatches tend to let water in pretty easily, quite heavy, push pedal rudder system, a lot of volume in the cockpit means it's hard to get good contact with the boat unless you really pad it out.
 
windancer said:
Mac50L said:
They pound in a chop e.g. badly designed and it doesn't take much to it properly (I know).
Not sure i would agree with that but everyone has their own opinion and they are certainly entitled to it.

How much of your paddling is done in choppy seas?

Having designed kayaks so they don't pound (or as little as it is possible to) and regularly paddling in chop up to 1/2 metre in our paddling areas (above that it is a regular sea), and having paddled the Seaward in the same conditions, I thought I had a basis for my comment, well at least some basis for the comment.

That still leaves the poor fitting out (decklines etc.) and rudder system all so 1980s style and bad when designed then, also noted in the above comments.
 
Hmmmm, thanks for all the food for thought. I will be able to get my hands on a Tyee to paddle packed on a weekend trip. Haven't been able to find a loaner Vision, but have talked to people who say it's pretty tippy compared to the Tyee. Stability is a good thing given my wont for fixing sails onto every available surface of a kayak...
 
For basic info, here are the present stats:



From that info, the sliders are gone – replaced by the much more ergonomic brace-able seadogs pedals.
Also from the photos, rear perimeter lines are present, though one cannot tell if bungee or not, but in any case readily changed. But even in this config, the paddle brace straps give strong positive grabholds let alone the additional safety usage.
In addition, I see that the design spec is for casual touring and that large bow volume is designed in for heavy loading and also note in one of the other advert blubs that a ‘flatter hull’ is a feature that they have purposely built in for this particular design:

“Having the greatest stability of all the Seaward kayaks the Tyee's flatter hull and long waterline make this boat a stable platform for fishing, photography or just casual cruising.
The Tyee, with its snug fitting cockpit and extra volume in the bow allows for a dry ride even when heavily loaded. In comparing medium volume kayaks the Tyee is responsive while exploring for an afternoon and quick and agile while tripping.”


Knowing the design brief, SOR, or specification is an important part of an assessment. Or choice if available. In seawards case, they offer a whole variety of yaks and as one would expect (and hope for) a variety of design approaches.
For Phillip’s requirements, the rounder hull sections might not be a tracking advantage, but if lee boards used, the high volume model Tyee may assist in load carrying and body cg movement. A test run would be really helpful - maybe bring the golf umbrella and see how it slides (or not) around.

Here’s a view of the Tyee’s hull sections to get an idea of the ‘flattening out’ of the bow (and stern) regions that has been referred to. There are many kayaks that use related shapes to match their particular design compromises.
 
How about a Passat? I know it is a double, but with all that deck space you could put a whole lot of sails up, and there would be tons of room to haul Dan's huge tent! :D
 
Mac50L said:
How much of your paddling is done in choppy seas? Having designed kayaks so they don't pound (or as little as it is possible to) and regularly paddling in chop up to 1/2 metre in our paddling areas (above that it is a regular sea), and having paddled the Seaward in the same conditions, I thought I had a basis for my comment, well at least some basis for the comment.
I certainly wasn't saying you were right or wrong, your comments are very valid, your opinion is valued, I was just slightly disagreeing with you. I must admit you probably paddle in more choppy conditions than I do. I myself paddled for 10 days in a Seaward from Loreto to La Paz (close to 100 miles) in the Sea of Cortez in Baja. Some of those days were in quite choppy conditions.

terry
 
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