Spare Paddle Retainer Storage

Water Horse

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I wanted a paddle retainer to store my spare paddle on the front deck of my kayak. I decided this was a good idea because of two reasons. First, it will help to hold the paddles in place. Second it is a visual reminder to take the spare paddle along.

I found an abs return pipe with 180 degree bend at HomeDepot (I think it is 2 inch) and then found an adapter the reduces the size of the hole. I drilled a hole in either side and attached it to the deck safety lines. I positioned it so that the front bungies would also act as a an additional support so it doesn't flop around in the breeze on top of the vehicle. The following images are self explanatory:

The one question, do you think it is long enough or would extension pipes help?
 

JohnAbercrombie

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I think it would be more secure with a longer 'tube' for the paddle shaft, but yours may well work OK.
However, with that 180° fitting you will be 'forcing' the shafts to be parallel, which may (or may not) work with your paddles.
One style of ABS fittings I've seen (from gnarlydog in Australia) looks like this :


David Thompson (Alta Kayak) on Orcas makes very nice bolt-on carbon holders which have a 6-7" tube length IIRC.



These are on my wife's boat and work well. Leon Somme and Shawna Franklin use the David Thompson holders.
 

dvfrggr

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Water Horse, Nice job!
Really thinking outside the box, what a simple and clean look. To answer your question about adding extensions, my paddling habits would require it:) The picture that
JohnAbercrombie posted of gnarlydog"s longer tubes is what i used to use on my boats and on 2 occasions when I only used 2 bungees to hold the paddle blades down instead of 3 I lost both paddles in surf and one in breaking waves so I personally would make the tube longer and use 3 bungees to hold the blade down. The additional bungees you use on the forward shafts would seem to add a lot security for the paddles being washed from the deck and so it may be perfect for your paddling habits.
Dave R
 

Water Horse

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Here is an addendum to my kayak retainers to give those more support by adding extension pipes. I boiled water in a pot and and put the 180 bend pipe in the water for about 5 minutes (just tried to cover the bend area with water rather than the fittings). I am not sure if the fitting bent or the bend area bent more but I was able to get a bit of an angle. I used liquid steel epoxy to glue it together - I think this will work.

Here is the result.
 

Roy222

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Epoxy might not work, ABS usually requires a special solvent glue -- like PVC pipe.
Consider a rebuild with ABS pipe glue or adding a mechanical fasteners.


Roy
 

JohnAbercrombie

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Roy222 said:
Epoxy might not work, ABS usually requires a special solvent glue -- like PVC pipe.
Consider a rebuild with ABS pipe glue or adding a mechanical fasteners.
I've glued ABS hatch rims to boats successfully with epoxy, so I think epoxy will work OK if the surfaces are cleaned and roughened.
Epoxy is too expensive and messy for ABS plumbing jobs, though! :D
 

Astoriadave

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Different glues, one chemically bonds, the other, mechanically. Both work, although I'd stick to the purpose designed ABS glue for plumbing. For this application, either is fine.

The ABS glue dissolves a little of the pipe surfaces, effectively making a plastic "weld" between the mated pipe fittings when the solvent diffuses into the plastic fittings. Acrylic plastics aka Plexiglas can be glued same way, and when there is a clean, tight contact, joint is very secure, hence use in fabricating fish tanks from quarter inch material.

Epoxy becomes a solid, snatching onto the surface roughnesses, and makes an enormously strong mechanical bond, but no chemical bond. However, its coefficient of thermal expansion is a little different from that of the native ABS, so that thermal cycling, over a very long time might separate the joint. In a threaded contact, never happen. Unthreaded surfaces, might. YMMV.
 

Water Horse

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The deed is done now - a rebuild would be just that a total rebuild with new parts. I don't think it will be coming apart anytime soon. I have used liquid metal before and it is solid stuff. However, the background information is useful for future builds.
 

Astoriadave

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Water Horse said:
The deed is done now - a rebuild would be just that a total rebuild with new parts. I don't think it will be coming apart anytime soon. I have used liquid metal before and it is solid stuff. However, the background information is useful for future builds.
Man, there is no need to rebuild that. You are not pushing water under pressure through it. Either epoxy, liquid epoxy metal, or ABS glue would be plenty strong. That will outlast us all. Looks like a good design, with the bend broadened a bit to place the blades better on deck. Let us know how you like it, after some use.
 

cougarmeat

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Have you looked at mounting "paddle britches" (look like very tiny jeans with paddle shaft going in leg holes). It looked like you had to redo the rigging on the deck to get the lines though the webbing "keepers". Or do those loops open/close with velcro and just wrap around the rigging?

I made mine out of PVC and they work okay for version 1.0. But ... Though they keep the paddles on the front deck, they are too far towards the bow for me to reach from the cockpit. And the inside diameter is large enough for just a shaft, but some of my two part paddles have a small locking collar and I need a bigger inside diameter (maybe just next PVC size up) for that.

Except I'm concerned that it was make the holder too loose for normal shafts. But I don't see why that would be much of a problem. The holders just keep the shaft from moving around; the deck bungee holds the paddle blade. So if the diameter is a little big, no problem - right?
 

JohnAbercrombie

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designer said:
Have you looked at mounting "paddle britches" (look like very tiny jeans with paddle shaft going in leg holes). It looked like you had to redo the rigging on the deck to get the lines though the webbing "keepers". Or do those loops open/close with velcro and just wrap around the rigging?
On my North Water paddle britches (which are a few years old), the side loops are webbing which need a line threaded through them. There's a velcro strap around the front end.
If the deck fittings on the kayak can accommodate an extra line, you could just add a secondary (short) deck line for the paddle britches.
designer said:
I made mine out of PVC and they work okay for version 1.0. But ... Though they keep the paddles on the front deck, they are too far towards the bow for me to reach from the cockpit.
I've found the same problem - partly a lack of flexibility issue, but partly because I thought I didn't want the paddle blades too close to the cockpit as that's 'valuable real estate' used for chart, GPS, etc. .
One solution if your footpegs aren't right at the bulkhead is to just take your feet off the pegs and slide forward a bit to enable reaching the paddle. It seemed obvious once Ginni Callaghan suggested it for reaching the kayak sail, and I was amazed that I hadn't thought of it... :oops:
 

cougarmeat

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John,
That's an idea (sliding forward). At only 5'5" and not as flexible as yesteryear it is a stretch. But then, I try to imagine the scenario of when I'd need to reach them - especially solo. If I had to do an exit and was churned about and lost my paddle (not using a leash), then I'd have time to retrieve the spare paddles as I was also deciding how to get back in (re-enter and roll, heel hook, etc.). I guess the situation I was thinking of was suggested rolling exercises where one was supposed to pull one half of the paddle from its holder and use it to roll up (Unless you can hold you breath long enough to grab both and put them together.

One time I was able to hold my breath long enough to re-enter (completely upside down [in a warm pool]), securely attach my spray skirt, and roll up in a pretty dry boat. I haven't been able to repeat that. So the need to be able to grab half the spare and roll up is a pretty "low probability" situation for me.

More commonly, the spare just gives me a backup in case I trip and fall over the shaft of my main paddle at camp. Also, I carry two different styles; one more aggressive than the other. So I can change around on longer trips (wide blade, narrow blade). Given that, I think I just need to carry, rather than reach, the spare.

I mentioned my Epic doesn't fit in my home made holders because of the locking collar. I've put them in the bungees on the stern deck. But I don't really like anything on the deck I can't see. I've had only a few situations where I've had a wave break over me and everything (pump, paddle float, water bottle) "secured" under bungees went for a swim. But I remember them well :)
 

Mowog73

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Is David Thompson still in business? I saw his paddle holders on the pictures John posted of his Romany that is now sold and really like them, great looking piece of kit.
 

cougarmeat

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One finesse with the DIY PVC pipe is to cut the open end at a slant. It makes it easier to target the opening when inserting the paddle shaft. I finally bought some NorthWater sheaths but have not yet summoned the motivation to untie the deck rigging necessary to lace them on. I read John’s idea about a parallel line, but it will look more “finished” if they use the existing deck cord.

Having experienced braking waves pull everything - under bungee - off the deck of my boat, I don’t like to carry anything critcal/expensive behind me. Like I might put my pump and paddle float back there IF i’m paddling with someone else who also has a pump and paddle float. But I strive for a clean deck - removable compass and extra paddles excepted/accepted. Maybe a deck bag on the larger boat.
 
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JKA

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Banks Peninsula, New Zealand
I've found the same problem - partly a lack of flexibility issue, but partly because I thought I didn't want the paddle blades too close to the cockpit as that's 'valuable real estate' used for chart, GPS, etc. .
I guess the situation I was thinking of was suggested rolling exercises where one was supposed to pull one half of the paddle from its holder and use it to roll up (Unless you can hold you breath long enough to grab both and put them together.
I now carry my spare paddle on the front deck, partly because I have also lost one from the rear deck in surf, but also so that I can get to them 'in extremis'.

To avoid John's issues re real estate, and to allow for Cougarmeat's plan for rapid access, I mount mine with the shafts back towards me. The blades are slid into a homemade mesh bag, and the shafts are trapped under a bungy that can be slid rearwards to free them.
Windy16-1.jpg


This obviously covers the front hatch, and also where a compass is often mounted. The hatch issue is easily resolved; it takes seconds to remove the splits, and I place the compass closer to me as I can't read it when it's forward.

On my Nordkapp, which is very fine in the bow, I don't use the bag but instead a cradle of cords to hold the blades. This sheds water better than the bag when the boat is burying the bow. I may add a plastic ball to the bungy to find it easier with scrabbling hands; there are a few cords that could be grabbed in the excitement.

I do train to access them when on the south side of the water's surface, and rolling with half a paddle is actually easier than using a full paddle. It's easier to manoeuvre half a paddle into a set-up position in turbulent water. Canoeists may be able to add to this discussion.

I always orientate the right-hand side half (that's pretty clumsy, but hopefully makes sense) on the left side of my deck, with the power face of the blade facing up. That means it's correctly orientated for a right hand roll when inverted, but I can also grab the other one if rolling on the other side.

Is this just a party trick, and could I do this when things have gone south? Well, that's why I train, but I've never needed to do it for real so I can't say.

Anyway, food for thought.

John
 

chodups

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I finally bought some NorthWater sheaths but have not yet summoned the motivation to untie the deck rigging necessary to lace them on. I read John’s idea about a parallel line, but it will look more “finished” if they use the existing deck cord.
Yeah. Undoing and restringing the deck lines hung me up too. I got around it by using wire ties through the Paddle Britches loops and around the deck lines. My chart case lays nice and flat over the blades and I can change paddles out without any fuss. As far as putting a spare paddle on the back deck I may as well put it on the Moon because I won't be able to get it myself. Anything I can't do by myself I don't do at all.

IMG_0032.jpg
 

cougarmeat

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I did find that when those deck lines are wet, they stretch a bit more, making the finishing knot more accessible. Because I’ve only addressed the issue when at home, after the boat has been cleaned and is dry, it seemed impossible to untie the knot, put on the sleeves, then retie with the same tight tension. But in the last outing, where Steve and I found the only cloudy/misty/foggy pocket in the PNW, the lines were constantly wet and I could see enough slack developing that working with the knot was possible.
 

CPS

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The newer version of paddle britches have velcro on them to attach to deck lines, so that is nice. They don't look as much like a tiny pair of pants though, so a bit of a drawback.
I'm hoping to get a pair soon.

I have previously stored spares on the back deck and I just find it too clunky to get at. I also really prefer back a deck re-entry if I go for a swim, so having them there is not my favorite.
 

chodups

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The newer version of paddle britches have velcro on them to attach to deck lines, so that is nice. They don't look as much like a tiny pair of pants though, so a bit of a drawback.
Northwater has three versions now. One uses velcro and the "Original Paddle Britches" and the "Paddle Scabbards" have the loops. I have an "Original" style that I am pleased with. I replaced the ABS waste elbows on my Tempest with the new-style "Britches". They seem to work fine though I sort of preferred the MacGyver-look of the plumbing works offered by Home Depot.
 
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