Werner Paddles -- are they worth it?

Kasey

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Mike said:
That having been said like other people have pointed out a bent shaft is a trade-off. I don't use it all the time + there are sometimes sitiuations where I wish I had a different paddle altogether.
If you don't mind expanding on this...since you sound like a fan of especially the Werner bent-shaft - when don't you like it?
 

mikemike

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Kasey said:
If you don't mind expanding on this...since you sound like a fan of especially the Werner bent-shaft - when don't you like it?
One place I don't like it is in high wind, but it's more because the paddle is so insanely light and the Iklios blade is a rather large 710 sq cm. As a result it catches the wind daunghtingly; heavier paddles seem to me like they don't get blown around so much when the wind is really whipping.

Another thing is that I have paddled on-and-off for almost 20 years and (touch wood) I have never had any wrist problems whatsoever, yet with the Werner bent shaft I have a fair bit of stifness after I have paddled for awhile. I can't imagine why this would be because bent shafts are designed to be easy on the joints (especially on the wrists). I expect that I am doing something wrong rather than any problem with the actual design.

Also, another reason is that I have paddled with a wing paddle for many many years and when it's flat and calm there is nothing that can beat a wing. Sometimes I wish I had a wing, but that having been said: the catch on the Werner Iklios is pretty astounding.
 

Mike_Jackson

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Many of the people I paddle with have ended up with Werner paddles and have been very happy with the investment. The Ikelos has been very popular. Money spent on a good paddle is money well spent. That said, I much prefer my Greenland paddle to any euro blade I have tried...
 

Baysel

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Oct 6, 2006
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I got a Werner Double Diamond foam core bent shaft small diamiter (white water paddle) for Christmas and am loving it. It did take a little getting used to the bent shaft but I think its made me a better paddler because I had to widen my hand position to where I should have had them. The foam core I think made my roll a little cleaner from the flotation in the blade and it also gave me more power in airated water.

I think spending a little more money on a paddle is worth it considering a lot of people change their kayak before they change their paddle, I know I will.
 

thief

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a Werner Kalliste bentshaft was in my stable

for about a year....hated it....
sorry guys..absolutely hated it...it was waaaaay too light for my taste.....
i had started with a lendal about 4 years before that.....(which can be pricey too) and got very used to the weight of it....
the all carbon kalliste was so much lighter that i felt (eroniously probably) that i could not trust the paddle because it was so light....
i worked in a shop for 3 years and sold 100's of werners....we had very little complaints about them save the price.....

but for me: Lendal...
rob
 

nermal

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I have from inside sources (and my sources are GOOD) that tell me Lendal is tinkering with foam core blades. Their hesitation is price; the blades alone priced out to $400-$500 plus another $150 for the shaft. I own several high end Werner and Lendal paddles and love them both for each of their strengths. If the Lendal blades ever make it to market, I'm afraid that it will be long time until I pick up a Werner again. It amazes me how much R&D these companies do that most consumers never see. They really are trying to offer only the best products they can.
 

Dan_Millsip

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nermal said:
If the Lendal blades ever make it to market, I'm afraid that it will be long time until I pick up a Werner again.
Why? (I've never tried a Lendal)

It amazes me how much R&D these companies do that most consumers never see. They really are trying to offer only the best products they can.
Of this I have no doubt. I can only speak about my experience with Werner, and I think the R&D is well worth it. The engineering and workmanship in these paddles is truly amazing. You can't appreciate the quality of these paddles unless you hold one in your hands. And you really can't fully appreciate the quality and functionality until you try one. And then you won't want to paddle without one.

*****
 

nermal

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I get asked this all the time as I am selling paddles, which brand is better.

Werner focuses on light swing weight and tries to minimize the vortexes behind the blade by using dihedral. Lendal's approach is paddle strength and efficiency. While Lendal acknowledges light swing weight is important over the course of a 1000 strokes, Lendal claims their blades will get you there in only 800 strokes.

I find most novice paddlers enjoy Werner's neutral bent shaft while "high end" paddlers want the added performance of the Lendal crank shaft. I made the switch from Werner to Lendal as I was beginning to do more traveling and a 4 piece paddle made a lot of sense. As an instructor, I also appreciate how affective the blades are so that my strokes look effortless. 1 sweep with a Lendal Kinetic Tour blade equaled 1 1/2 sweeps with my Kalliste.

What I miss from Werner is their foam cored blades. They just feel good to paddle with them. The Lendal one's are supposed to be crazy light like Werner's so if they do come to market, I do not believe I will be tempted to buy another Werner paddle. Although if I did, it wold be an Ikelos bent shaft.
 

Kasey

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Hi Nermal,
Well, as Dan knows he has now ordered me a Werner bent shaft Cyprus that should be in next week! Merry Christmas to me! But I was interested in your post too as I presently have a friend's Lendal that he lent me to try out the bent shaft and decide whether or not I wanted bent shaft.

You said:
I find most novice paddlers enjoy Werner's neutral bent shaft while "high end" paddlers want the added performance of the Lendal crank shaft.
Is there a difference between the Werner bent shaft and the Lendal "crank shaft"?
 

Mark_Schilling

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I'm in envy, Kasey. I've been mulling over a Cyprus carbon bent-shaft for a while now; still trying to decide between the Cyprus and Ikelos but I think the Cyprus would work better for me in the surf when a larger blade area may put too much stresses on the body. Let me know how you like it!

I'd be interested to see these Lendals if and when they make it to market. I paddle occasionally with a guy who has a Lendal and we joke about him being able to use it as an anchor. The ones I've seen are much heavier than anything Werner has come out with. Considering the difference in weight, I'd far rather paddle 1000 strokes with a lightweight Werner than 800 strokes with a heavy Lendal. But I'm a small guy, so I'm sure that comes into play as well.
 

mikec

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the heft and weight are the difference. the Lendal's definately have more swing weight as well as overall weight, even in the super duper carbon blades and shaft.

i prefer the bend on the Lendal's to the one on the Werner's however, it just feels better on my wrists and elbows.

all that being said, i prefer my Werner's.
 

nermal

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I might of generalized my Werner/Lendal shaft argument.

Werner uses a neutral bent shaft. If you look at all the squiggles on the shaft and where your hands ultimately end up; they are in line with the blades.

Now look at a Lendal shaft, the shaft is "cranked" out so that your hands are in front of the blades.

With a Werner paddle, it is fairly well balanced. If you loosely hold the middle of the shaft the paddle does not roll.

A Lendal paddle held the same way will cause the shaft to roll away in your hand. That is why I said most novice paddlers wanting the ergonomics of a bent shaft will prefer a Werner paddle The average paddler holds onto their paddle too tightly. A Werner bent shaft will allow a looser grip because it is well balanced and the wrists are in alignment.

The Lendal paddle allows the kayaker to apply more power to the blade as the blade follows behind the arc of the paddler's hand. Lendal describes it as a caster affect, like on a shopping cart. The wheels always self orientate. A Lendal paddle allows a looser grip for someone applying more power when blade control is really important.
 

Kasey

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Thanks Nermal,
I'll have to digest that....sounds related to the concept my friend was trying to describe over the phone - something to do with how much water splashes out of a bucket compared to a frying pan (hand position in relationship to the load)? I'll have to solidify my understanding of that concept! :oops: Guess I'll find out which I prefer next week when I can compare my new Werner with the Lendal. I will then reread this too...Thanks again!
 

Dan_Millsip

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Thanks for answering my question Nermal, you've brought up some interesting discussion.

nermal said:
The average paddler holds onto their paddle too tightly. A Werner bent shaft will allow a looser grip because it is well balanced and the wrists are in alignment.
I find this to be very true. When I'm out paddling I see a lot of people paddling with a death grip. I paddle with a very loose grip -- just using a finger or two and my thumb on the lower hand and a very relaxed and nearly open hand on the top. For this style of paddling, I've never found a straight shaft to be a problem. I currently paddle with a straight shaft Werner Kalliste and really like it. Having said this, I'm planning to pick up a bent shaft Cyprus or Ikelos in the next while.

The Lendal paddle allows the kayaker to apply more power to the blade as the blade follows behind the arc of the paddler's hand. Lendal describes it as a caster affect, like on a shopping cart. The wheels always self orientate. A Lendal paddle allows a looser grip for someone applying more power when blade control is really important.
Sounds like a similar reasoning for bent shaft canoe paddles, because of the bend in the shaft, the paddle provides more power, for a longer duration compared to a straight shaft. Makes good sense.
 

Kasey

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Finally got to try out my new Werner Cyprus bent-shaft...been just sleeping with it for a few days now as I couldn't get out! Went out twice today - once by myself on glassy calm waters in the sunshine....and then met a girlfriend at another spot! The wind picked up and we really got to try paddling feathered in the wind! The first thing I noticed about the paddle (being foam-core) was that you can even feel the bouyancy when paddling - it felt like it just popped out of the water...took some getting used to! Also notice that the Werner when sitting across the cockpit tends to sit with blades face down due to the second bend in the shaft. I like the position. The Lendal Archipelago bent-shaft that I was borrowing previously tended to sit with blades face up or at 45 degree angle to the water...depends which you prefer I guess. Found the handholds wider apart on the Werner than the Lendal and the shaft feels and looks a little wider in diameter (mine isn't the narrow shaft as I have long fingers). Love the adjustable ferrule system on the Werner even though you are limited to the preset degrees of feathering. It just feels solid. At least you don't need a hex key like the Lendal...and I did find I didn't tighten the Lendal enough and found it moving as I paddled - guaranteed you would learn how tight to adjust it though! I didn't find the Werner blade did any of that fluttering in the water that I did feel with the Lendal if I pushed it too hard. Being new to paddling feathered and to bent shaft I did feel a little disconcerted that I'm not sure where my blade faces are if I needed a quick brace but as I get to know my paddle I think I'll learn...may need some more playing in a chair in the living room with my eyes closed! Hehe! Same with learning where my hands are along the bent shaft. The bouyancy seemed wierd when trying a sculling draw in the morning but I bet if I'd tried in the afternoon it would have felt better. My favorite pro to the Werner is that I noticed it enters the water so quietly for me - not sure if it's just that the shape of blade fits my paddle stroke or just great design on Werner's part! My overall impression (and this from a fairly inexperienced paddler remember) is a good solid, quiet paddle and I think I'll love it!
 
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