New guy, boat inquiry

Discussion in 'Boat and Accessory Building' started by BarryJ, Oct 28, 2009.

  1. BarryJ

    BarryJ New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Lacey, WA
    Hi all!

    I'm Barry from Olympia, and I'm considering building a Pygmy Pinquino Sport 13 for the wife and son to share.

    Has anyone here built one (I know, it's very similar to other Pygmy models) or can give advice on the boat?

    Any comments are appreciated!
     
  2. KathyD

    KathyD Paddler

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2009
    Messages:
    111
    Hi Barry from Olympia,

    I am in no way qualified to answer your question having never built a boat, but I too am considering building a Pygmy kayak with/for my 13-year old son. I would highly recommend calling Pygmy and, better yet since you are within easy driving range, visiting their shop in Port Townsend to do a test paddle. Knowing your paddler's size, paddling ability, and type of paddling (day trips, week long expeditions, calm water, surfing waves, etc.) helps to figure out the type of boat that would work best.

    I talked with them and they recommended an Arctic Tern 14 based on my son's size and type of paddler, and the fact that I'd like to paddle it myself when he outgrows it. I am planning to go test paddle a few boats once my work schedule permits (hopefully soon!)

    Kathy from Bothell
     
  3. sushiy

    sushiy Paddler

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Lynnwood, Washington, USA
    Barry,
    What is YOUR reason to choose this model?
    To me, spending more than $1000.00 and a couple hundred hours in labor for recreational kayak is a little too much unless you really understand this boat and like it.

    If your family might want to go paddling with local club, or more experienced kayaker, I bet they will have hard time keeping up with them.

    Why not Tern14?
     
  4. BarryJ

    BarryJ New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Lacey, WA
    I currently have a Necky double, which was fine for the three of us. Now, my son is getting big so I'd like to transfer either my wife or son to a separate boat so we can still do a family outing with two kayaks.

    Eventually, I'd like to get 3 single kayaks....I do like the new Borealis design....the extra room is more pleasing for me.
     
  5. Howard H

    Howard H New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    My 13 yr old son and I have been building a Pinguino Sport.

    Construction has gone well. This is our first build and I have minimal woodworking experience. However, the folks at Pygmy have been very patient with our questions. Sure, there are some blemishes – “lessons learned” - but we are very happy so far. More importantly, I am thoroughly enjoying the time I spend with my son on this project.

    We took the kayak out for her maiden voyage in September even though we hadn’t yet installed the bulkheads, hatches, and deck rigging. Our goal was to get her on the water before my son started school. She passed the float/leak test! The Pinguino compares favorably to our other rec/light touring kayaks (WS Tsunami 120 and Dagger 12.8). Based on my experience with these poly boats, my first impression is that the Pinguino tracks and glides fairly well. Acceleration is pretty good too. The Pinguino seems perfect for our typical paddling... Flat water, slow moving rivers, and overnight camping.

    We still have some work left to do. We are carving a new seat from minicell foam (since we are not too fond of the Thermarest seat pad) and we still need to sand/varnish. It’s getting cold here in New Jersey, so this will have to wait until the Spring.
     
  6. rider

    rider Paddler

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2005
    Messages:
    1,761
    Location:
    Coquitlam,BC
    I think "tweenie" boats can do pretty much anything a sea kayak can(except expeditions), some things better-like surf.
    Now, as an owner of a Tsunami 120,that i have put through it's paces in surf as well as flat water, and analyzed it's design. You're saying the Penguino tracks BETTER than the Tsunami? Tsunami is a boat I openly refer to as being obnoxiously straight tracking in any conditions and deliberate lack of paddling technique. Tsunami's other flaw is being obnoxiously stable,and more effort to roll than I like. So,does the Penguino turn at all?
     
  7. Day_Sailer

    Day_Sailer Paddler

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Springfield, Oregon
    Sushiy, Love your posts and always enjoy you point of view. So hope you wont take offense if I disagree on this one.

    I too have been looking at the PS-13 and and the AT-14 for a someday build. Unless the paddling club is going at near full sprint to reach possible hull speeds the PS-13 and AT-14 will actually be less work to paddle at "Standard Cruising Speed" (SCS) as defined by Pygmy in a recently received mini catalog announcing their 3 new kayaks.
    That publication says "lower is faster". Below are the SCS numbers they published:
    Pinguino Sport ---- 16.85
    Artice Tern 14 ----- 17.01
    Standard Osprey --19.18
    Coho ---------------- 19.33

    I know that the Coho and Osprey are certainly faster designs....when enough effort is applied. However as Pygmy describes " Kayak cruising speed is proportional to the boats wetted surface, which is the area of frictional drag of the water on the hull, here expressed in sq ft."

    Pygmy goes on to say; "A boats theoretical hull speed (THS) is a function of square root of its loaded waterline length (LWL). At approximately 80% to 90% of its hull speed a kayak will start to produce a bow wake longer than is LWL and the effort required to continue acceleration rapidly increases. The standard cruising speed of most paddlers is below 80% of their THS, and for differing boats speed relative to effort is primarily determined by frictional drag and wetter surface of the hull and not the boats length. In some cases a shorter boat like our Tern 14 is easier to paddle at standard cruising speeds."

    I can not verify any of this from my real world kayaking experience.
    But from my 30+ years of racing sailboats at National caliber competitions, I can confirm that at less that hull speed conditions the shorter, less wetted surface, boat can often out preform the longer hull given equal power from the sails.

    To add to the original question I'd strongly suggest a test paddle at Pygmy. " All may be reviled when real world experienced"

    just my $.02 worth, barely. ds
     
  8. sushiy

    sushiy Paddler

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2006
    Messages:
    940
    Location:
    Lynnwood, Washington, USA
    DaySailer, thanks for the compliment :oops:

    I was looking for the wetted surface info on their website, I guess I missed it.

    The mystery of hull speed... :? So, This Penguino can be faster if I paddle with same energy with I do to paddle Tern 14? That is good to know :cool
     
  9. Howard H

    Howard H New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    The Pinguino has a decently long keel but it does not track as straight as the Tsunami. It seems to be a pretty agile boat for its size/dimensions. I haven't tried rolling it yet.
     
  10. Day_Sailer

    Day_Sailer Paddler

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    42
    Location:
    Springfield, Oregon
    Sushiy, Glad I didnt ruffle too many of your feathers.. :)

    The Wetted Surface area was in a chart in a mini catalog I recieved in the Spring from Pygmy announcing thier newest designs.

    The surface areas of the Penguino and Tern 14 are soo close you and I would probably never really be able to tell much difference in real world paddling. I was only trying to make the point that at reasonalble paddling club outings, (non racing, recreational types) 13-14 foot designs shouldnt have any trouble keeping up. And I personally prefer the shorter designs for the better manauverability and easier transport and on shore handling and storing.

    (wish i cud fix the spellin errors in my other post :oops: )

    Happiest paddlin' to all and May the "Great Pumpkin" bless you.


    ds
     
  11. BarryJ

    BarryJ New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2009
    Messages:
    7
    Location:
    Lacey, WA
    WooHoo!

    I spoke with the folks at Pygmy, and came up with the following plan:

    An Arctic Tern-14 for the wife, continued use of the Necky for me & the son.

    I picked up the Tern kit today; it will be a Christmas present for the wife. I've got the kit safely stashed and will wrap it for under the tree.

    I can't wait to build it! She's gonna love it!