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Newbie report...and question (of course)

skypix

skypix

Paddler
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
26
Hi all.

What a great site! I discovered you after doing a search for info on a tandem kayak kit, and saw the really terrific building thread on the Pygmy Osprey double. Read through every one of the 84 pages, tremendous!

I built an airplane once and chronicled it for Kitplanes magazine, took me 18 months! (Was supposed to be a 400 hour kit. At 1700 hours I was still working on it.)

Great commentary on the many threads I've read. You folks are a class act.

My wife and I discovered kayaking up here in mid-NY (on a little lake in the Adirondacks). We rented a 14 foot plastic two-seat tub and paddled it around and had some wonderful experiences.

My question is, I now have the bug (being also a model airplane builder) to build a kayak and am not sure which might be the best choice for us. We won't probably ever do much surf tandem paddling. We want to explore the neat lakes in New England and Canada, of which there are thousands, but she's not real athletic and at 64, I guess I'm only better than I never was, so shouldn't expect I'll be competing with long distance paddlers any time soon. I.e., peaceful, idyllic, smooth gliding paddles are in our future, I think, more than rough water stuff.

I like the Pygmy double (having fallen victim, perhaps, to the "tortured plywood" comment on the Pygmy site) and am wondering if anybody can recommend any other tandem kits? I've looked at the CRC Chesapeake double and Shearwater too, but I'm higher on the Pygmy boat.

Have I overlooked anything, like other kits that would be ideal for us?

I don't think I want to build a stripper. S and G seems to be the way to go for my first timer. I'm not a real woodworker, although having built the plane., some foam and woodstrip hang gliders and a few ultralights, as well as the models, I'm not afraid to build. In fact I enjoy it a lot!

Thanks for any help folks, and keep up the friendly good work here.

Jim
 
Jim, so much depends on how you might actually like the paddling experience that I think you should first rent a couple different tandem boats and do some paddling. I'd hate for you to build a boat you did not use.

I've built a couple Pygmy kits, and can vouch for their quality and straightforward assembly. With your background, I suspect a Pygmy kit is a reasonable task.

The primary advantage of any of the stitch and glue plywood/fiberglass doubles over a straight fiberglass (or, rotomolded) double is the much lighter weight of the sng boats. Carrying them to the water is a joy instead of torture.

Be forewarned, however, that after assembly comes outfitting, so the boat fits you well. Critical to that process is carving or purchasing a decent seat. The small Thermarest cushions Pygmy includes with its kits are a cruel joke for anybody of our age (I am also 64). Others have detailed their solution to this problem, so if you search around in this forum, you will find ample advice and information.

Glad you are here. Hope we hear much more from you.
 
As a 'young punk' at 62, I have to agree with Dave's comments regarding the Pygmy Thermarest seat. I built the coho, used the Thermarest once for about 45 minutes, went home and ordered the pre-carved Redfish seat blank (kept the Pygmy back rest but modified it a bit). After reviewing several other paddling forums there seems to be a trend that the Thermarest just doesn't cut the mustard for most folks; of course your mileage (seatage?) may be different.

I'll also agree with Dave that you really, REALLY need to try a few doubles at first before buying/building one. My wife and I started off renting doubles about 5(?) or 6 years ago. The second year after we started we tried singles "just to check them out". Game over. The only reason I can think of to go back to a double...(actually a triple or double with a large center hatch).... would be so we can take the dog along.

They're just bigger, heavier, harder to manoever, and can lead to some interesting marital "discussions". And if you want to get up early in the morning for a paddle and leave "the better half" in bed (hopefully to have coffee ready for you when you get back), it's a heck of a lot easier and more fun with a single.

Enjoy the process.
 
Hmmm, lots to think of and that's just from the first three responses. thank very much all of you! Things I hadn't considered, for sure.

By renting, do you mean the plastic, "higher aspect ratio" (longer/leaner) singles and tandems? i don't know out here if anybody rents boats. and CLC is a good 500 miles plus from my house.

I had read on another thread Dave's and others recommendation of the redfish seat, that looks like a winner for sure. I bought a Honda Magna motorcycle 3 years ago, flew down to Tenn to ride it back, and back I rode it...to the chagrin of my tailbone. I had to restrict my legs to one hour at a time, then 10 minutes rest, and once I got home, I bought a $600 aftermarket seat that made it an enjoyable experience for the first time.

Re the double vs. single...I'd totally love to build a single...but I've been hang gliding and flying and stuff all these years without my mate as she doesn't grok that stuff, but she loved the quiet paddling together, and we get along great, so probably a tandem not a problem there...but I'm going to take your advice and have us each rent a single and give that a try because if she decided two singles was cool for her, it would be game over: I'd order two in a heartbeat, and probably a stripper for myself, after I got my chops building her SG ;-). Or so my fantasy tells me right now.

Don't mean to ramble on but one more thing...if I did build singles, what would you recommend, again for calmer, fast-gliding, smooth-water paddling?

BTW, I used to live in Eugene, have hang glided on Whidbey Island, Dog Mt. and know the northwest pretty well, so I'm not a complete furriner. thanks again for the help all!
 
guess I can't edit the above post: I meant, can't rent a wood boat
 
I'll echo the above comments and add that you really should try two singles -- with a double it's difficult to talk to one another (real easy with singles), and you can both go off and explore on your own -- and it makes it a lot easier if only one of you wants to go for a paddle (it's difficult to paddle a double by yourself). I had a double and recently sold it after my kids found single kayaks -- they refused to go back in the double after that. I'll also echo everyone's comments on the seats -- and Redfish seems to be the benchmark standard in comfort -- Joe makes a great kayak seat.

Regarding which type of single -- I have a Pygmy Coho and very much like it. And you possibly can try some wooden kayaks out -- contact Pygmy, and they'll get in touch with people in your area who have built Pygmy's and get you in contact with them (if someone is in your area). Pygmy contacted me a while back and someone came by to see my double and I let them take it for an afternoon to try it out (don't know if they purchased one or not).
 
Just for interest's sake, we should point out that your ultralight and hang-glider building skills give you all the tool and material skills to make aluminum framed folders - as in:

Cover33.jpg



http://www.yostwerks.com/MainMenu.html

and they are quite inexpensive.
 
Thanks Mick, I've seen those...quite impressive. I imagine it's not that different setting one of these up from rigging the hang glider before flight...and a lot smaller package to carry. My glider is 19 feet long, 1' diameter, and weighs 85 lbs. I carry it in a converted PVC irrigation tube on a roof rack on my minivan, which keeps it from flexing at both ends during road travel - the main way a hang glider wears out in fact.

I also saw online some neat geodesic canoes that weigh 8 lbs.! Amazing.
 
mick_allen said:
Just for interest's sake, we should point out that your ultralight and hang-glider building skills give you all the tool and material skills to make aluminum framed folders
Click to expand...
Kayak Academy had a folder with an aluminum frame. Less than one year old and they had to replace all of the aluminum tubes.
 
RoyN said:
[Kayak Academy had a folder with an aluminum frame. Less than one year old and they had to replace all of the aluminum tubes.
Click to expand...
Roy, four questions: 1. Which aluminum alloy? 2. Was the aluminum anodized? 3. Were the joints treated with a corrosion-preventative such as Boeshield? 4. Was the folder periodically disassembled (every couple weeks is OK) after a fresh water rinse?

Been an owner of aluminum-longeroned and framed folders for 10 years and never had a failure of an aluminum part or a freeze-up of the frame/longeron joints. I think the alloy in my case is 6064, not one of the highly corrosion-resistant alloys. The key is regular and proper maintenance, the price one pays for the convenience of using a folder.
 
Astoriadave said:
Roy, four questions: 1. Which aluminum alloy?
Click to expand...

Not sure. I never took a good look at the boat.

Astoriadave said:
2. Was the aluminum anodized?
Click to expand...

The tubing did not appear to be anodized.

Astoriadave said:
3. Were the joints treated with a corrosion-preventative such as Boeshield?
Click to expand...

I doubt there was anything done with the joints.

Astoriadave said:
4. Was the folder periodically disassembled (every couple weeks is OK) after a fresh water rinse?
Click to expand...

Once assembled, I always saw the boat being transported like any other fiberglass or RM kayak. I never saw the boat being used in salt water. Most of the use was either in a swimming pool or Lake Sammamish.
 
Dan_Millsip said:
Way cool! Do you do aerial photography too? Just asking because of your username.

*****
Click to expand...

Hi Dan, sorry for the delay, been swamped with magazine work (I'm a writer and photographer).

Right on, I've been shooting for Plane & Pilot and other aviation mags for almost 30 years. Also writing for them and Outdoor Photographer, PC Photo, some nature books etc.

Although this shot, of me flying at Ft. Funston in SF, CA, was taken by my daughter!

Thanks all for your thoughts. I'm still casting about for local wood boat builders. Did hear back from a guy up in Albany who's built several, a Guillemot, a redfish design and more. He's offered to put me in contact with some other local builders.

I might also go spend a day at Chesapeake, they're not horribily far away, about a day's drive, then I could test drive some boats and get a real feel for what I'm doing.
 
Here's a shot I did last month of Mike Goulian, who just won the latest Red Bull Air Race overseas. Cool plane, eh?
1006_OMG1_5.jpg
 
I might be a little late putting in my opinion, but I have paddled both the CLC triple and the Pygmy Osprey triple. The are both basically the same thing as their doubles, just with and extra cockpit. I would say that while CLC makes excellent kits and has good designs, I liked the Osprey a lot better. It is much lighter than the CLC design, due to the way that CLC uses shear clamps and large fillets on the single chine. The Pygmy avoids both of those things and saves a lot of weight in the process. I would say the CLC I paddled weighed about 100 pounds, and the Pygmy comes in around 65 or so.

Both paddle very nicely and are very stable and roomy.
 
Thanks kea, that's very helpful. 100 lbs is too much.

I may do a kit stripper or hybrid single, and a SnG single for wifey. Head spinning, going to think about it for awhile and see as many as possible out east. I built enough wing rib spar hang gliders and airpanes that flew straight, I shouldn't be shy
 
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